Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

“The vast majority of mums know that nutritionally speaking breast milk is superior to formula. We really don’t need any more information (on
the whole)“

The vast majority of mums with babies over a few weeks old in the U.K. are bottlefeeding and using formula and believe that breastfeeding is the equivalent of giving your child the odd serving of organic carrots: nice, healthy, better than a mars bar, but with no really important or lasting benefits for health and development.

They believe formula is the acceptable norm, and breastfeeding is an optional ‘extra’.

Instead of seeing breastfeeding, and the health and development patterns of breastfed babies as the biological norm, and formula feeding and the health and development patterns of formula fed babies as ‘worse’.

Fish can’t see the water.

And we need a tonne more information, as evidenced by educated women on this thread saying things like ‘well you can’t look at someone and tell how they were fed as babies!’. 😒

Look I am probably banging a drum in the middle of a forest here as no one appears to hear me. But the argument that you cannot tell who was bf and who was ff by looking at them is RIDICULOUS if it’s meant to show there is no difference, lasting or otherwise.

These things are not assessed by looking at people.

These things are assessed by careful research into health and health related events and outcomes.

Infant feeding is one of many health related phenomena that have an impact.

You might not believe it or you might think it doesn’t matter.

But the idea that because you can’t see it, the impact is not there does not hold water.

@Iggi999

How is it nonsensical? Can you clarify the circumstances under which you believe a woman should have autonomy over her own body and those under which she shouldn't?

I see that argument (you can’t see it so it doesn’t exist) irritates you, too, mini 😀😀

I have bf my 4 kids till toddlers with only one person ever inferring displeasure at public feeding. Maybe it’s a U.K. thing?

The one grumpy person was a man when I was on a plane, he had boarded with few months old baby, I was with a 14 month old, not my first. I knew, due to the timing of the flight, that she’d feed and then sleep so I latched her. As the grumpy man (GM) came on he seemed genuinely horrified by the sight of me feeding a toddler and there was a lot of head shaking, frowning and glares of disgust, so much so that a hippy-ish woman boarding behind him patted me on the shoulder and congratulated me for “still feeding”. It was all very dramatic. The GM was seated a few seats in front of me and I offered him a very supportive smile when mid flight his baby started screaming and he was faffing around with bottles mid flight. My DD slept the rest of the way and I read a book.

The vast majority of mums with babies over a few weeks old in the U.K. are bottlefeeding and using formula and believe that breastfeeding is the equivalent of giving your child the odd serving of organic carrots: nice, healthy, better than a mars bar, but with no really important or lasting benefits for health and development

I don’t know what women you’ve been speaking to but they really don’t. Your seething resentment towards mothers who formula feed is obvious in your posts and I suspect it’s clouding your judgement.

The nutritional benefits of breast milk have been promoted relentlessly in the last decade yet there is no rise in breast feeding rates. There is far more going on and unless that’s acknowledged and addressed nothing will change.

I should add, apart from him no one even seemed to register if and when I was breastfeeding. No embarrassed half glances or anything. I’m in Australia and the bfing numbers are also very low - maybe it’s because in summer pretty much everyone is half naked anyway?

I don’t know why we don’t ‘believe’ each other about both bottle and breast feeding shaming. It happens but it is very geographically dependent on where you live as to whether you will be shamed for bottle or boob.

That's just it -totally situational. There are communities where breastfeeding is just totally not a thing, and others where it is actually very common for mums to feed their babies at least for a few weeks/months. As a middle class mum, my NCT group of 8 all started off bf, most had stopped by 3-4 months, myself and two others continued to a year, now i'm the last boob standing. Totally in defiance of the national stats. Whereas because I attended a wide variety of baby groups I also associated with mums who didn't breastfeed and hadn't met anyone else who did, and probably wouldn't give it a thought were it not for the current national debate.

It does not escape my notice that the mums feeling most persecuted for their choice to ff (e.g. those who make up the most vocal ranks of Fed Is Best) are middle class like myself - in their millieu, they obviously felt a great deal of pressure to bf, and meet a lot of mums who are that they infer are looking down on them. In other parts of the country and rungs of the social ladder, they would not turn an eyebrow whereas a mum trying to bf might face endless opposition and obstacles from her partner, her family, her job and other caring responsibilities etc. Both these experiences are real, but there is little crossover so naturally scepticism.

It is also about perception; people who wanted to stop bf seem to always be the ones who met the 'carry on and stop moaning' breastapo HCPs, whereas people who wanted to carry on always seem to meet the "givvimabottle" brigade. Our reality is shaped to no small extent by our expectations.

The thing is with these companies is that we do actually need a decent alternative. Back in the day people made crap like evaporated milk and flour. How would it have been possible for an alternative to be made if people couldn’t make a profit from it? Nobody would have produced formula and some babies would end up dying through lack of available food.

Totally Errinem. Absolutely.

Fuck Nestle

I agree! Except they have smart researchers and people in marketing so they take up a large share of the extensively hydrolysed and amino acid formulas and thus stay relevant.

I don’t know why we don’t ‘believe’ each other about both bottle and breast feeding shaming. It happens but it is very geographically dependent on where you live as to whether you will be shamed for bottle or boob.

It also depends what timeframe we are talking about. in the very early days, and that is also when postnatal hormones are probably at their worst (so feels the harshest), there is often judgment about "not persevering" or "reaching straight for the formula".

When baby is a few weeks/months (depending on geographical area / demographic / family culture) old and you are STILL breastfeeding, the judgment is much much harsher and more outspoken and "extended" BFers are very often called very nasty names.

'I don’t know why we don’t ‘believe’ each other about both bottle and breast feeding shaming.'

Same, and I also don't know why so many don't believe women who say they couldn't breastfeed. #trustwomen doesn't extend as far as trusting them to do their best to breastfeed, apparently.

are STILL breastfeeding, the judgment is much much harsher and more outspoken and "extended" BFers are very often called very nasty names

Yes, it’s like there is a very, tiny specific window when it’s ‘ok’ to breast feed.
We have very weird reactions to feeding babies and breasts in the UK. The ‘seen and not heard’ mentality along with being shamed for ‘exposing’ yourself is oh so British and shame is a very powerful form of social control.

AyEssDee

...extended BFers are very often called very nasty names

I’m not disputing this but it was never my experience and I breastfed for about 8 years in total (4 kids).

But like I said, I’m not in the U.K.

@minifingerz stop being so over dramatic. It really doesn't add anything to the debate.

Same, and I also don't know why so many don't believe women who say they couldn't breastfeed. #trustwomen doesn't extend as far as trusting them to do their best to breastfeed, apparently.

Because there is a real lack of education and knowledge around newborn feeding behaviour. My mother started out breastfeeding both me and my younger sister but "had to" give up (and yes, in her mind she had to, and I'm not belittling or invalidating that in any way) a few weeks in as she thought she had run out of milk. She had no idea that using dummies / topup bottles could reduce her milk production, neither had she EVER heard about clusterfeeding. BFing on a schedule - which is generally the expectation - rarely works.

And of course some women cannot breastfeed. Obviously. No one should be shamed for their feeding choice.

I was actually referring to the bit about being unable to pick a bf baby out of a line up as an adult idea. There are a million things that could benefit or be to the detriment of a person that doesn’t “show” on them as an adult.

When baby is a few weeks/months (depending on geographical area / demographic / family culture) old and you are STILL breastfeeding, the judgment is much much harsher and more outspoken and "extended" BFers are very often called very nasty names.

Thiiiiis. Never got any public shit for it when she was tiny, although I was terrified I would. After about 3 months old, oh goodness people do have an opinion! Usually well meaning I should add, I've had no 'put it away love' or anything hostile, just total bewilderment and often concern for the baby, which makes me laugh tbh. There does come a cutoff point though I've found - as she got bigger and bigger, the comments got more frequent and intrusive. Now she is very clearly a big walking talking toddler, they have just stopped - I assume because people think I'm such a nutter they don't feel safe approaching me in public

Fuck Nestle. Fuck Milupa. Fuck the companies who have turned their most profitable product into a sacred icon of modern motherhood, so that it’s become completely socially unacceptable and a betrayal of women to criticise it

The key word here is profit. Clearly, more research needs to be done on breastmilk and breastfeeding. It's such a complex substance but we know relatively little about it. But here is the problem, as nobody will ever make a profit from breastmilk, who is going to pay for those studies?
In a weird world- if nestle were allowed to sell actual breastmilk and profit from it, we would have much much more information available to us.

Watching now whilst my two FF babies take a nap...

I have to agree with many pp that it most definitely does demonize formula.

There is nothing that has made me feel more of a failure as a mother than my inability to feed my children. Flat nipples and very large breasts made it impossible for my children to latch. I even hired an expensive private lactation consultant who couldn't get my boy to latch, so for some of us it's just not possible.

In the first half of the program there have been so many references to formula potentially causing things like heart disease and cancer...yet now statistics and facts to back it up. Horrendous claims for a FF mum to hear.

Ebf mums don't want to admit it, but FF are stigmatized too, perhaps not as much, but we are often met with hostility, having to justify our reasons to sometimes perfect strangers. I have felt ostresized in mum groups for FF, and have felt deep shame.

It's not just ebf mums who deal with negativity, shame, guilt, and many other emotions associated with feeding, yet they are the ones pedaling the demonisation of formula feeding to mums who were perhaps not at lucky as them in their ability to feed, support etc.

Fed is best.

I remember my MIL saying she stopped breastfeeding because she apparently ‘didn’t have enough milk’ for my ‘hungry dh’ who wanted ‘too much.’ Of course it was the baby’s fault, I couldn’t believe my was ears. She then went on to suggest that my breastfed two week old ds was thirsty and maybe I ‘should give him a drink of water.’ Needless to say I wouldn’t have left my baby in this woman’s care!

my ears*