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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Demonisation of formula!!!

996 replies

Summertimehaze · 31/07/2018 09:52

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

OP posts:
Cyw2018 · 31/07/2018 15:15

Well I've just finished watching the dispatches documentary and feel like I must have been watching a different programme to OP and some other MNetters.

I didn't see any 'digs' at formula feeders, only (justified) criticism of the formula industry who are profiting from the desperation and vulnerability of new, formula feeding, parents to 'do the right thing for their baby'.

I found the section of the documentary about the make-up of breast milk fascinating (I'm a bit of a science nerd) and inspiring at a time when I am going through a rough patch breastfeeding. DD waking every couple of hours, and feeding on my side in bed (how we have always done it) is leaving my back and neck in tatters (I am a first time mum at 37 and this week is the first time I have actually felt like an 'older' mum!!).

The bit I couldn't relate to however, was the negativity surrounding breast feeding in public. I have only ever had smiles and nice comments.

Personally I think the only way to improve breastfeeding rates in the UK is to normalise it. I am extremely fortunate to come from a family where breastfeeding has been the norm across, at least, the last 3 generations (both my grandmothers, my mother, all my aunties, all my female cousins, and all wives/partners of my male cousins have breastfed). It certainly makes it seem more achievable and less stressful when it is the norm. How you normalise it is another matter, but support and a positive attitude towards it, starting with healthcare professionals would be good.

Breast IS best, but formula is an amazing, life saving invention for when breastfeeding is not possible!

RidingMyBike · 31/07/2018 15:18

@Summertimehaze a mixture of reasons. We had lots of problems initially (my milk didn't come in but midwives ignored this, leading to seriously ill baby in SCBU) and I'd always intended to bf. Was very disappointed and upset by initial experience as it wasn't anything like I'd been led to believe. This gave me PND. Milk eventually came in several weeks(!!) later. I felt under pressure to bf from extended family and HCPs. I kept forcing myself onwards a day at a time combi-feeding - made it to six weeks, so thought I'd aim for three months, then six months. I only fed 3 or 4 times a day from two months onwards as I hated it and refused to reduce formula further once my milk was in as I enjoyed bottle feeding, despite encountering pressure to try and do exclusive BFing. I kept expecting the 'amazing bonding experience' to kick in if I just kept going a bit longer. It ended up with about nine/ten months of loathing every second of BFing. By then she was down to two feeds a day so it became one of those chores you just do. It really did mess up bonding with DD.

TBH feeding beyond a year is no great achievement, despite all the stuff about golden boobies etc in the BFing groups. The first six months are tough but after that... From 1-2 yrs DD fed once or twice a day for a total of 10-15 mins so it wasn't really a big deal. From 2 yrs she went from once a day to several times a week and last latched on about a fortnight ago.

I wish the info provided in advance had been more realistic:eg You may find BFing helps you bond with your baby. You may find BFing is cheaper than ff (I was actually told BFing would be free!). You may find it difficult to start with. You may find a reduction in ear infections, stomach upsets etc. Cluster feeding isn't a lovely snuggly excuse to sit on the sofa but is Actual Hell. A lot of the advance info didn't make clear that the benefits are at a societal level not individual.

I've ended up with a combi fed DD who has no allergies, never had an ear infection, one stomach bug in her life and only one day off sick from nursery in over 18 months. Meanwhile her EBF cousin (same age) has multiple allergies, eczema, had lots of ear infections and stomach bugs...

ethelfleda · 31/07/2018 15:21

Oh go find something else to be offended by OP! Everyone knows that mums who CANT breastfeed for whatever reason are not being judged. If 97% of babies are not breastfed at 6 months, are you telling me that 97% of women's boobs don't work?? Of course not. You are in the MAJORITY by a clear mile. Many women simply aren't interested in even trying to breastfeed. That's their choice but please stop getting so offended by the breast is best message. It is based on fact!

Excited0803 · 31/07/2018 15:21

I was disappointed by the documentary. I was particularly annoyed at the biased view showing unsupportive public. That's silly not my experience; strangers make nice comments, bring me unasked-for water and smile. Maybe I'm oblivious to the nasty ones, but my experiences suggest they are a minority and the focus on them cannot be helpful to pregnant women and new mums who have nerves about feeding out and about. I found it very irresponsible of the director.

The focus on breastfeeding versus formula feeding was too simplistic as always; it makes women feel it's all-or-nothing and there was no mention about how there's no advice nor support for combi-feeding, which is particularly useful if women have to go back to work. I'd have liked to be able to give an occasional bottle of formula to save the time expressing milk, but my baby wouldn't take it so we gave up on formula; if I'd really needed to then I'd have been stuck as there's little available mixed feeding advice. I can't see that it would be unhealthy to mixed feed and have no idea why that isn't promoted when women struggle instead of needing to give up.

I was at a good hospital where we got early breastfeeding help, and was lucky that it went well so I happily exclusively breastfeed. A couple of the visiting midwives were useless however, one suggesting I didn't have enough milk when I described normal cluster feeding behaviour. My baby has stayed perfectly healthy, but if I hadn't had confidence in feeding him that could have been the killer blow in our breastfeeding. Also few people seem to understand the time commitment involved in exclusively breastfeeding to support new mothers. I gave detailed feedback to my hospital about the issues and gaps I found from the breastfeeding course and would encourage any other new mothers to do the same; education can only improve if we feed back loudly and clearly "THAT DIDN'T WORK, YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN X, Y and Z".

ethelfleda · 31/07/2018 15:22

I think most mothers feel judged

I never have actually.

Excited0803 · 31/07/2018 15:24

Does anyone know where the stats came from that they said 30% are doing some breastfeeding and 1% doing exclusive breastfeeding at 6 months by the way? I just wonder when people are actually asked, because nobody has asked me in months what my baby eats.

Ifeelshit · 31/07/2018 15:26

ethelfleda I said most not all. And some feel judged but aren't, some are judged and know. Some are judged and don't realise it and some are judged and don't care and I guess their must be those that aren't judged and don't feel judged, but I haven't actually met any.

RidingMyBike · 31/07/2018 15:28

@Iggi999 I combi fed for a year and found the BFing cost far more than the formula feeding. I was spending about £5 a week on formula but at least £5 every week on extra food for me (we noticed an increase in the food part of our shopping bills - I was struggling to maintain my weight and was getting thinner and thinner). Add to that some nursing bras, a few tops, the £100+ pump (needed to get milk to come in in first few weeks) and that made BFing far more expensive. I had free BFing support and DD's tt was snipped by the NHS otherwise that would have cost a few £100 more. Travel to BFing support also cost a bit as there was none in my town. I didn't get sucked into some of the more gimmicky stuff like pillows and cushions and necklaces and covers but there were some at baby classes who had spent a small fortune.

I was bitterly disappointed having been led to believe that BFing was free. Some of my friends who had a straightforward experience and didn't need extra food found it was free but that certainly doesn't apply to everyone.

Ifeelshit · 31/07/2018 15:31

Excited0803 HV are supposed to ask at each weigh-in. They clearly don't ask every mother at every weigh in and not all mothers take their baby to clinic, but its an extrapolation of the data they do have, like any statistic (e.g. 65% of the population are overweight or obese, they obviously haven't weighed everyone!).

merrygoround51 · 31/07/2018 15:31

*I think most mothers feel judged

I never have actually.*

The most judged I felt was when I went to the local mother and baby group with my first when I had moved onto the bottle. The whole meeting was focused on how women who dont bfeed will get breast cancer, none of the mums spoke to me and the phn told me off for planning a trip to Portugal at 7 weeks.

Totally different experience with Number 2 who was bfed - welcomed with open arms.

At the time I was so much in the baby happiness haze I didnt care, but it could have upset someone less confident

RidingMyBike · 31/07/2018 15:33

@Excited0803 I was asked about feeding each time I got my baby weighed and at all the vaccinations - there is a box for the HCP to tick in the red book on each of the vaccination pages for whether you're fully or partially BFing.

Lethaldrizzle · 31/07/2018 15:33

I've never felt judged

m0therofdragons · 31/07/2018 15:35

The reality is that poorer families (those who would be classified as pupil premium dc in schools) do worse off than non pp pupils. A very large proportion of those dc are FF. it's all part of a bigger picture where there parents are often less well educated, encouraged by family members against breast feeding, have poor nutrition themselves and are more likely to feed their dc poor quality food/biscuits instead of fruit and veg snacks.

This is what the public health figures say. Bfing isn't everything but there are a group of mums who refuse to try to bfeed and generally they come from this demographic.

Clearly there will be those outside that and those dc who are Ff due to other reasons (eg myself - my sister died when I was 12 weeks old do dm has to stop bf as she needed support. However, on its own it's not an issue as the rest of my upbringing/nutrition etc was good. Although I do have some mild allergies).

Anecdotal "I ff and my dc is fine" is unhelpful when there is evidence that breast milk is best.

I work in public health. It's so hard not to offend people who can't bf. With dd1 feeding was a breeze but with dtds it was an endurance challenge.

Excited0803 · 31/07/2018 15:35

Thanks @ifeelshit. Maybe I should take my boy to be weighed more and make a point of informing the health visitors, to help get the stats up.

Lethaldrizzle · 31/07/2018 15:36

Asperger - it's not a myth. For my first I was instructed to eat more by the doctor as I was burning so many calories. Breast milk is fatty. Where do you think that fat comes from?

Andthatswhatitsallabout · 31/07/2018 15:37

I haven't rtft but really think there could be a balance....
Breastfeeding rates must be ridiculously low in Ireland, the two times I had babies here every woman on the ward was formula feeding and they handed out bottles to new mothers. One nurse even suggested I give my dc a top up even though I was establishing bfeeding absolutely fine. Any conversation I have here about feeding at night bar none the other mothers ask how many bottles my dc still has...
When I went to a pharmacy about getting something for reflux the person behind said "pop whatever it was into the bottle", people honestly look surprised when I say I breastfeed. I am not exaggerating, I lived abroad for a while and in two years with the exception of two friends I haven't seen a single mother breastfeed here in Ireland.
I don't think formula should be demonised, it's the total opposite in Ireland anyway. I honestly believe there is a serious void in bf support and unfortunately some serious lack of education here about the benefits of breastfeeding.

DiabolicalMess · 31/07/2018 15:38

@Iggi999 - because without formula what would have happened to my babies - that's why I'm thankful for formula. Neither of my babies could have waited weeks to see an LC. On a population level of course support within the nhs is critical and needs improving, but on an individual and real life level formula kept my babies alive and nourished when I couldn't with breast milk (and still is with DS2 without it he would starve). That's why I'm thankful for it.

DiabolicalMess · 31/07/2018 15:41

And also I was encouraged to use formula with ds2 when his blood sugars dropped for 3 consecutive tests. It was either formula or he was going to be taken away to be treated on paeds. 🤷🏻‍♀️

PasstheStarmix · 31/07/2018 15:41

‘there is a box for the HCP to tick in the red book on each of the vaccination pages for whether you're fully or partially BFing.’

My health visitor didn’t even bother ticking that box she was really relaxed about it. She would just ask if feeding well and weigh ds. She was amazing about my breastfeeding and much better than acouple of HCP at the hospital who I felt very pressured from.

GoatWithACoat · 31/07/2018 15:44

Breast is NOT always best. It is only always best in nutritional terms. Yet there is so much more to feeding babies.

Financial, emotional, physical, social, cultural, family dynamics, work etc etc etc all have to factor into feeding and when those things are considered, breast feeding is often not the best choice. A baby is part of a wider family, community and culture, not simply an individual whose only needs are nutrition.

The documentary, I thought, highlighted very well that British culture is not suited to breast feeding. We are exceptionally critical and judgemental of mothers and parenting choices in ways I have not witnessed in other cultures.

At present, the focus is too narrow for breast feeding rates to increase.

Ennirem · 31/07/2018 15:45

Aaargh these threads. I so wish there was a way to just suck all the emotion out of the subject of infant feeding so that we could discuss it like civilised grownups instead of wounded children clutching our favourite toy.

My opinion is as follows, fwiw:

I disbelieve the 80% of women want to breastfeed statistic. I think it is probably influenced by people saying what they think they're 'supposed' to say and want when surveyed by HCPs.

I think it would be a lot better for everyone if the women who, genuinely, would be just as happy to/far rather formula feed, did not feel huge social pressure to 'try' when frankly they don't want to do it. Better for them, better for the women who genuinely do, and better for the quality of the discussions around feeding. I am always delighted when I see a woman who has CHOSEN to formula feed, genuinely chosen it, announce it without shame - this is one of the best things about formula, in countries with supply of safe clean water it does actually provide mothers with a safe, suitable alternative. Choice is good!

Whereas I put my head into my hands when I read posts from women who 'really tried' but whose milk didn't come in after by day 3 so 'had to switch'. This either means they were woefully underinformed about how breastfeeding actually works (as I was, but when it turned out to be bloody difficult I got informed quick because I actually, really, wanted to breastfeed) or they didn't really want to at all, found it a pain in the arse and were glad to have a 'good reason' to stop. Yes I know, some women don't produce any/enough milk (a very small percentage). But you do not know that is you by day 3.

IF we lived in a sensible dispassionate environment where women felt freer to just say "nah, not for me, formula is perfectly good enough for my baby and I'd prefer it", then what precious little resource, time and energy there is could be dedicated to women who do, really, honestly want to breastfeed - who are willing to go through the difficult first weeks, who are desperate to access support, who have to wait in pain too long for tongue tie assessments and revisions, who may be the only person in their family to do this, who may have older children and little support and be struggling to manage. NHS provision in my area was so bad I ended up relying entirely on charitable and online voluntary support groups for practical guidance, emotional support and reliable evidence. This is just ridiculous.

If the (I believe) minority of mums who were genuinely committed to/invested in breastfeeding got proper support, more of them would achieve their goals, and the critical mass of women openly and proudly and successfully breastfeeding would have a knock on impact on the rates without any cajoling being necessary in my view.

So yes, I think we need to stop with the persuasion tactics (and the shaming, if there is any, although I am sceptical about this because how on earth can an under-resourced 1% minority shame the vast majority?). Treat the two choices as ethically neutral. And then support the living crap out of any mother accessing breastfeeding support services, make that a gold standard experience, not sitting in the middle of the night crying in pain with your crying baby calling three 'helplines' your midwife gave you on rotation that no-one ever answers because they're too busy.

Spend decent money getting ALL midwives adequately trained as breastfeeding support workers and maintaining the currency of their evidence base and knowledge, as it is midwives who can have the greatest impact in the early difficult weeks, and midwives by and large who are guilty of either simply saying 'keep trying' to struggling mothers without having the knowledge or the time to actually help them try better, or dismissing any difficulties by saying 'oh just give him a bottle dear' to a woman who is distressed precisely because she desperately wants to breastfeed.

The goal at the moment seems to be that EVERY woman should breastfeed (or jolly well ought to try). No, sod that. From this place, where we are now, at the absolute bottom of the league tables for the developed world, let's target resources at those with a genuine passion and need to feed their child from their own bodies; let's help and empower those women, so they can achieve their goals and go on to support and encourage their own sisters, daughters, friends. Let's increase the critical mass of positive breastfeeding stories, so that the message stops being either "It was way too hard, I couldn't do it" or "I moved heaven and earth to breastfeed, it was SO HARD and i had NO SUPPORT but I did it anyway because I LOVE MY CHILD" (which is of course a pressurising and alienating message for women who either haven't fed yet or chose/ended up feeding by formula).

And for God's SAKE, let's stop the artificially confected mummy wars, which are stirred up and kept going by the formula companies to ensure that breastfeeding can NEVER be discussed, no matter how dispassionately and innocuously as in this documentary, without the discussion never getting to the actual evidence presented but always remaining stuck here on how the presentation of that evidence makes us feel.

Ugggghhhh.

HaroldsSocalledBluetits · 31/07/2018 15:50

So few women breastfeed that clearly this alleged demonisation has little effect. This is what always gets me about discussions like this - formula feeding is the norm and women who breastfeed are very much in the minority. If there's been a campaign of demonisation at all it has failed utterly.

Ennirem · 31/07/2018 15:50

Another idea I once saw on a bf forum which I thought was absolutely fantastic was the following: a not-for-profit formula brand, with all profits generated being ploughed back in to breastfeeding support and research. This brand could give those mums who did want to bf, but it didn't work out for them for whatever reason, a way to contribute to the overall population level benefits of breastfeeding even so, as well as an option to give their child formula without pouring money into the manipulative, profit-driven, absolutely amoral formula megacompanies who spend huge amounts of money not just advertising formula (which they are heavily restricted from in this country but still find ways around e.g. the 'follow on milk' con) but actively undermining breastfeeding and breastfeeding support. You don't have to be a breastfeeding mum yourself to not want to be sustaining that shitshow, and at the moment formula feeding mums have very little choice but to do so.

Quick straw poll - would any ff mums reading this thread buy such a product if it were available?

bobstersmum · 31/07/2018 15:52

The programme was not about the breast /formula debate. It was about breastfeeding women not feeling supported. And it mentioned that bf rates in the UK are very low. I ff my first and bf my next two. I couldn't give a fiddlers how anyone else feeds their baby and nor should anyone else, but if there was more help and support for bf mums then maybe more people would choose to do it, or try it.

mustbemad17 · 31/07/2018 15:54

I certainly would Ennirem. Without formula my DS would have dropped a huge weight...the fact that this is being exploited by greedy corporations makes me cross!