Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

@Ridingmybike - I've just gone through my red book. The vaccination boxes don't have feeding ticked and there's nothing on the weight pages; the only notes about breastfeeding are on my health visitor's notes at 11 days. It says I had some soreness (that I haven't had since the end of the 4 week cluster feeding). So we're not a statistic.

So few women breastfeed that clearly this alleged demonisation has little effect. This is what always gets me about discussions like this - formula feeding is the norm and women who breastfeed are very much in the minority. If there's been a campaign of demonisation at all it has failed utterly

That’s not true. It has a huge effect. Just not the effect of shaming women into breast feeding but by not discussing things openly.

Errinens post above explains the effect in good detail I thought.

“Ennirem” (sorry)

I cross posted with ennirem and think she is spot on. My post was addressing the eleven pages previous filled with people who choose formula acting like they're some kind of persecuted minority.

No, but they ARE a persecuted majority.

And breast feeders are also persecuted.

Just be a woman and have a baby. That’s pretty much all you need to be persecuted. It’s why women, no matter what choice they make, feel so shamed.

I’ve watched it and cannot see that it was heavily against FF.

You can not argue with biology and evolution. Breast IS best, but formula is an adequate substitute. I do think that formula should not be a first choice, but that’s my personal opinion.

@Ennirem I'd certainly have gone with a formula that was not produced by the big companies and where any money raised went to support women feeding their children (not just EBF, it's very hard to find support for combi feeding).

We found it very difficult with formula - having chosen to BF we never expected to be using formula so simply hadn't looked into it at all. I knew follow on milk etc was bad (BFing antenatal class told us about the evil marketing practices of formula companies) but nothing about first infant formula and the hospital midwives were banned from mentioning it or providing it and certainly couldn't recommend a brand. We literally went with the first one that came to hand when DH dashed to Boots to do something about our starving baby after two midwives over several days ignored our concerns (baby admitted to SCBU with severe hypernatraemic dehydration later that day - we probably saved her life by DH dashing out for that formula).

@Ennirem

Brilliant post, totally agree with everything you said.

There definitely needs to be a change in tactics in order to reach a critical mass, whereby breastfeeding becomes the majority/ norm.

I think rather than campaigns of "I breastfed because..." we should go with "I breastfed inspite of.... " inorder to show mums that whilst it isn't always easy most problems aren't insurmountable, and rather than focussing on negative stories about breastfeeding in public (the media just LOVE them), we need to hear the little positive everyday anecdotes that breastfeeding Mums have experienced.

So I'll go first...

I breastfed inspite of thrush and 2 episodes of mastitis (oddly not in the newborn days).

...and

I was eating in a local café when the lovely Thai/Philippino Waitress came and told me how rare it was to see someone breastfeeding in the UK, and that she breastfed her 2 children and loved it, and they never got ill

@Ennirem I don't know if I count for the purposes of your straw poll as I mostly bf but DD was ff at day care until she was 1. I would definitely have bought the product you describe, partly to boycott nestle, danone etc but also because I would feel more confident that a non-profit would have my child's welfare at heart and would actually follow WHO guidance which the rest of them ignore. There would be huge pushback from the formula lobby though,
I suspect your hypothetical product would have to have NHS and government backing to succeed.

@Excited0803 the HCPs were obsessed with BFing in my area. The HV told me off for supplementing with formula even though we'd just come out of SCBU where DD had been treated (including being tube fed formula) for severe dehydration because my milk hadn't come in.

All the HCPs in my area were acting like they were on performance related pay based on number of women EBF. It was all they cared about at the hospital. So they were very very keen to get stats on it.

@Cyw2018 the trouble with saying 'I bf despite...' is that it makes women who stopped BFing for those reasons feel awful. Each woman is different in what she can tolerate and the amount of support she has.

Yes, I breastfed for over 2.5 years despite having a haemorrhage, milk delay, low supply, baby with hypernatraemic dehydration, tongue tie, low blood sugar, galactocele, PND, failure to bond and loathing every minute of it.

I'd have been far better off saying this is all too much and switching to formula but I felt under so much pressure I kept going. Making women feel like they should just keep going despite whatever is really damaging.

@RidingMyBike

I think what doesn't get acknowledged enough, is that babies and mothers are surviving when naturally (and in the past) they wouldn't have and in these cases it is unreasonable to assume that they will be able to breastfeed
For example, premature babies and women with large postpartum haemorrhages.
Obviously support should be offered where it is wanted, so that they have the best chance of feeding how they want to, but it should be made very clear in these situations that not being able to breastfeed is not a failure, that the mother being alive to feed her baby by whatever means and the baby being alive to be fed is the most amazing thing and a credit to modern medicine.

@RidingMyBike

Unfortunately I don't think you are ever be able to promote and support breastfeeding without someone taking personal offence, and breastfeeding rates are tragically low in this country, and other culturally similar countries do much much better.

One of my cousins (in Canada) expressed fed 2 babies until 10 months due to severe nipple inversion meaning no latch was possible. I think that is a truly amazing achievement and should be acknowledged and shouted about, if nothing else it shows other women what is possible.

@Cyw2018 yes, totally. My NHS BFing antenatal class claimed that all women could bf and I came away thinking the only problem would be too much milk .

What would be far more helpful would be to show women the risk factors for milk delay and low supply (Fed is Best provides a very helpful list - of which I could tick off a third of the list so it's no wonder we had problems) and then support them in their options - if that means combi feeding then support them to do that rather than the obsession with EBF. Seeing that list in advance would have prepared me so much better rather than leaving me feeling like a failure.

It turns out me, my DH and my DD are all miracle babies who wouldn't have survived either birth or BFing in the past. So we're all alive now thanks to the miracle of modern medicine, and that includes formula.

Blocked ducts, mastitis and over supply!
We had it tough but DS is 6 months now and so glad I never gave up.

It is the most beautiful thing, and I still cherish every moment

The pain.

Why does nobody talk about the pain?

I imagine that's the real reason most women give up but they're scared to admit it because we're supposed to suffer for our children....

Or bottle rejection? Absolutely anxiety inducing if returning to work

@Ennirem some real food for thought in your posts! I would totally support that formula.

RidingMyBike thanks for your story, it’s so insightful

This thread was written in personal angst this morning and I must admit I do bring my personal baggage to it. I just want to clarify that at no point did I intend for this to be a bf v ff debate. Personally I think breast is best and I so so so wanted to do it. Respect to all mums out there no matter how you are feeding ... this parenting shit is hard 🙌

I also forgot to add that when my LO was struggling to latch there was an absolute pressure to not use formula. I think this is the crux of my argument. I had a lactation consultant squeezing colostrum from my nipple (ouch) and even though my LO had to go into hospital on day 3 because of weight loss I was still told not to “give in”. The pressure was immense. It took a nurse on the children’s ward to persuade me to let her give my dehydrated LO a small bottle of formula ... and I finally “gave in”. Looking back I can’t believe I just didn’t give her some food!!!

cheshiremama89 oh yes, bottle rejection. They talk all about nipple preference as a risk of combo feeding but not bottle refusal. Thankfully I didn't have to return to work until DS was 12months so milk wasn't necessary. We'd have been screwed if I'd had to go back earlier.

I watched the programme and cannot agree that formula was demonised at all. I thought the bit where they showed all the things in breast milk and then compared to formula was very good. What do you all think, that antibodies and the microbiome don't matter?
Formula is good enough, that's clear from the fact that children survive on it. But the explanation of why manufacturers invented needless products like follow on milk was very revealing.
Put it this way, you could feed you child entirely on high fat, high sugar processed food. Provided you clean their teeth and make sure they get enough exercise to burn off the excess calories, they may not come to any harm. Or you could feed your child on freshly prepared food with lots of veg, fruit, dairy and lean meat, and whole grains. Which is likely to be healthier?
The point of the proramme was that for women who HAVE chosen to breastfeed, the support to make that choice is often inadequate or absent, and public opinion also makes it harder. we have almost the worst bf rates in the world. Surely that's worth thinking about.

How is Thai/Phillipino not a description?

"Normal" people will take praise wherever they're given it I find

I bf in spite of excruciating pain at times. Both from the nipple soreness and the afterpains as my womb contracted while feeding.
As an earlier poster pointed out, if you can get past those first few difficult weeks, bf becomes a doddle (apart from trying to be discreet in public and unhelpful 'shouldn't s/he be on formula by now' comments).

Good for you. Now please go and look at a map.

the waitress was qualified to praise the poster because she had succesfully fed her own children
don't be a snob