to wonder why kids need to be able to read BEFORE starting school

[M3lon]

Just reading this.

I don't get it. Surely if you are in charge of the education system it makes more sense to address the issue of why children that start behind never catch up than to try and work out how to make sure all children start with exactly the same abilities and experiences on day one - which is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, because children develop at different rates, are actually different ages when school starts and have starts in life that you can't make even across the board without some major re-plumbing of society as a whole.

AIBU to think the minister for education should focus on fixing the bit he is actually in control of, and make schools somewhere where getting behind doesn't mean you can never catch up?

DD2 comes from a very language-rich home... still has fairly severe speech problems and we've waited a YEAR for speech therapy - and the bloody first appointment the therapist's eyes lit up seeing which school she goes to and promptly started trying to offload it all onto school and bump her off the list. That sounds awful. Unfortunately SALTs are often advisory now and deliver programmes to be administered in school. Your DC has a specific speech difficulty though not delayed speech and language.

For what it’s worth, I started school having never been to nursery and never learning to read or do any maths etc. I knew my alphabet and I might have been able to count to about 5 but that was it. I started school, in a socially deprived area, VERY behind. It seemed all the other kids could already read and by October half-term my parents were called in and told that I really should have had some basic skills before starting school and that I should have had bed time stories read to me etc. My mother had thought that school would teach me everything I needed to know. She started getting the ladybird books for me and books on tape to follow along with - she still wasn’t up for bedtime stories haha!

At 11, I won a scholarship to a private school due to advanced creative writing skills. At GCSE I got almost all A* and A in my results (only a B in Maths but not bad considering I had undetected Dyscalculia) and at A-Level , all A grades including English Literature at 100% on all my modules. I graduated top of my class with a degree in English Literature, followed by an MA. I work professionally in the Arts now but a big part of this is as a writer (stage and screen) and I also teach in Universities and Colleges.

So...being unable to read prior to starting school didn’t affect my academic attainment. What I do think is perhaps significant is that I have a pretty big case of Imposter Syndrome and despite everything still feel like I am “thick”. I think this is to do with my early school experiences where I was behind initially (and I didn’t realise I had “caught up” until the day I got my GCSE results).

found the article quite offensive as some kids even with lot of support from parents will naturally just struggle

Why are you angry? Is it because parents or perfectly bright children who don't speak to them or engage with them are taking away the much needed support from your child by blocking the appointments or taking the teachers valuable time from them?

Turn it round and see the reality

I absolutely agree about the cuts, the reduction in opportunities to be exposed to literacy, the attainment gap and the poor start for those disadvantaged by their early environment. BUT a lot of the discussion of the age by which things 'should' have happened is very UK-specific. I'm in Europe and have been very converted in my time here to the much later school-starting age. I do get a bit annoyed at the lower emphasis on reading (in the sense of books, proper stories) here than in the UK, but there's also no (IMO potentially quite damaging) fetishisation of (for want of a better word) 'mechanical' reading skills at extremely young ages, as I see happening in the UK and partially coming out on this thread. I think it also leads to conflation of the 'mechanical' and the cognitive-emotional capacities involved. All the boasting à la 'dc was reading Harry Potter at 5' and the talk about 'reading ages' (never, ever heard that term over here), and the implication that sometimes goes along with that that families whose kids don't do these things don't 'value literacy' fails to take account of the fact that a 5yo reading HP, or an 8yo reading Jane Eyre, however high their IQ, is unlikely to be entering into a full engagement with it on that cognitive-emotional level. (I was a ridiculously prodigious and prolific reader and in retrospect a lot went over my head).

@derxa - Yep, I know. I was just pointing out that lack of speech on the part of the child doesn't necessarily mean they aren't spoken to and engaged with.

@FASH84 - Poor kid. :(

Shady Great achievement but who taught you the alphabet before school?

@5000KallaxHoles I totally agree. The system is awful. I can’t get SALT for children who need it in my class because the funding isn’t there and the LA can’t afford it. Blaming parents isn’t helping. The government need to make sure funding and support is there for children who need it. I feel awful because I can’t get children the support they need. I do what I can, but some things are beyond my skills and knowledge and children need to see specialists.

I'm quite surprised by the number of people saying that

It's too simple to blame on the lack of libraries, any government etc. If a parent hasn't done anything that's suggested in the article i.e. Taught their child how to make letter sounds, recognise simple words etc, ensured there are educational items at home etc then they wouldn't be bothered going to the library anyway. Books can be picked up for pennies at charity shops.

Under five, unless in nursery, then the parents are the main/only influence in the child's life. They are responsible.

Bookstart is alive and kicking. Bookstart CORNER project is where a volunteer goes into the home to spend 30-45 mins with the family. It is important it is done in the home so they all start associating books with home, and so you can get a feel for the set up and be able to come up with tips together (like singing a nursery rhyme whilst brushing teeth, or finding a corner to look at books).

I empthasise that under 4's don't need to learn to read and write before school, as this is a common misconception and I think it scares parents. They just need to develop a love of books and rhymes, and be read to every day if possible. Some parents have literacy issues and we can signpost to support.

It's run via the Children's Centre, and the free resources are brilliant.

Those who volunteer in a classroom shouldn't be making judgements about why certain children can and can't do certain things. You are not there in a professional capacity and won't and shouldn't know the full information about the child.

Yes elderly, decoding words and understanding them in context is quite different. I had a child read to me recently and the word 'glowing' came up repeatedly. The child read most words accurately but little attention paid to punctuation and couldn't answer simple questions about the story and why characters acted the way they did etc. At the end of the book, I asked her what glowing meant and she had no idea. Parent had written in their reading schedule that the books were way to easy as her DD flew through them.

Under five, unless in nursery, then the parents are the main/only influence in the child's life. They are responsible

yy to this. I'm sick of the modern mentality of some parents thinking things aren't their responsibility. Overweight children - blame the government, supermarkets. Kids can't use cutlery - it's the teacher's job! etc etc.

*too

You had it right the first time.

Is that for me Tomorrow? No I didn't.
Parent had written in their reading schedule that the books were way to easy as her DD flew through them.

I think the other problem with not reading in ks1 years is that you will also find it harder to access all the curriculum and not just the reading curriculum. The children who can read can read the instructions and know what to do but those unable to read cannot do that.

Sorry, I thought you were correcting the one in ‘read to me’.

If it was, then I really shouldn't be a TA! I just type too quickly and haven't got my glasses on.

Oh, and the other big message Bookstart Corner volunteers try to get through to parents is that THEY are their children's FIRST and BEST teacher.

For the poster who said ‘You get back what you put in’ - no, actually, you don’t. We are a highly verbal household, crammed with books. DD (7) has been spoken and read to since birth. We have played games with language and numbers from as early as we could. We have SALTs in the family, so are all a bloody nightmare for promoting language development. She has a sophisticated vocabulary, a well developed sense of humour and many lovely, wonderful qualities....but is still two years behind in her reading skills.

There was a child at DS's school who stormed out of reception on her first day in a complete strop at her mum because 'you told me that when I went to school I'd be able to read and I've been here ALL DAY and I still can't' It was hilarious

I think it is harmful to ignore your child and not read to them (they attempt to start reading themselves from a young age) speak properly, toilet training and basic dressing.

Reading to your child is very bonding, memories to be cherished and that warm feeling of being loved, held and read to is essential to every child. It saddens me that there are children that never have this experience. It is completely free and all you need is ten minutes a day.

I find it incredibly sad that people see a need to teach their kids school stuff before they start school. Some children might have a love of reading etc by all means encourage this, others have no interest at all and excel at other things encourage these things. My child turned up at reception on day one able to listen, sit still, be polite, do as he was told, be kind, make friends easily, solve problems, dress himself and use the toilet. He liked listening to stories. But he has speech issues and consequently struggled with phonics. It’s no good telling him it’s ch as in chair when he says tear! A year of private speech therapy later he’s much better and his speech and therefore reading have come on. Personally I struggled with reading and was still using flash cards at 7. However I still managed to get the top a level grades in the school get a very good degree and work in a competitive profession. Most kids level out anyway. School is so pushy these days. The other week my 5year old had a word on his spelling list I clearly remember being on mine when I was around 10 (I can remember the teacher telling us how to remember how to spell it)

It's too simple to blame on the lack of libraries, any government etc. If a parent hasn't done anything that's suggested in the article i.e. Taught their child how to make letter sounds, recognise simple words etc, ensured there are educational items at home etc then they wouldn't be bothered going to the library anyway. Books can be picked up for pennies at charity shops.

This really interests me. I live in an area of (broadly) two halves; one wealthy, one fairly deprived. Our library in on the high street in the middle. Every week I take DD to rhyme time, and the (free) session consists predominantly of mums from the wealthier area. We sing nursery rhymes, get free books and generally take up spaces that we don't need IMO. I don't doubt that most parents want their children to succeed, but there seems to be a deeper disconnect for some parents around accessing these activities. I wish I knew what it was.