to wonder why kids need to be able to read BEFORE starting school

[M3lon]

Just reading this.

I don't get it. Surely if you are in charge of the education system it makes more sense to address the issue of why children that start behind never catch up than to try and work out how to make sure all children start with exactly the same abilities and experiences on day one - which is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, because children develop at different rates, are actually different ages when school starts and have starts in life that you can't make even across the board without some major re-plumbing of society as a whole.

AIBU to think the minister for education should focus on fixing the bit he is actually in control of, and make schools somewhere where getting behind doesn't mean you can never catch up?

OP:

Because it is in their best interests to be able to? Surely it makes good sense. I think when children are surrounded by books from an early age, it greatly encourages them to want to read properly.

Young children who are not given books, or who don’t have access to books in the very early years, are losing out and will be at an educational disadvantage from that point onwards.

But Mummy you taught your child "stuff" too! It isn't sad. I taught my DC to sit still and listen, to be able to visit the toilet by themselves , to do up buttons. We also had loads of fun, jumped in puddles, made mud pies, watched TV etc but part of that was talking, asking questions and reading. I didn't stand at a blackboard teaching phonics, there was nothing sad about it.

Is he going to give more money to Bookstart /the book trust then? That's why they exist. Shame the Tories cut their budget in half a few years ago...

You know, I’m normally totally ok with my parenting but this article and some comments on here have made me feel like the worst parent alive.

My twins were born at 36 weeks after having TTTS. At their two week check, they were assessed as needing SALT. They went weekly until nursery and after that they went into a specialist SALT class in a mainstream school; they were there for all of infants and graduated out into mainstream.

They’re 9 now, going into y5 in September. They both struggle with reading still, they have extra support in school for it. They try their best.

DS3 is going into y2 and I can already see he’s a much more fluent reader. He took to it like a duck to water and this year in particular he’s come on in leaps and bounds. If anyone’s going to be a high achiever it’s him.

They all had the same upbringing. I never tried to teach them to read and the HVs that supported me when my twins were little actually said not to - let them be kids. I’m an avid reader, and read to them all all the time. Particularly because my DH and DSS are quite severely dyslexic, so I wanted to try and instil a love of books and reading even if they find it difficult.

But then to read that it’s my fault, I don’t interact with my kids, I should ‘get off my phone’ well thanks.

This reads (the comments and the title, the article is more clear) as a stick to beat the parents that care because you can’t make a parent give a shit if they don’t.

Incidentally, they’ve now defunded my twins first primary school so the SALT is now afternoons only and the kids that need it get two afternoons maximum. Maybe they should have thought about that before coming out with this amazing plan.

Diana you are not who the comments are made at. You said you read to your DC all the time.

The vocabulary gap is a huge issue all through schooling. Children who start school with poor vocabulary find it very hard to catch up. I teach upper KS2 in a deprived area and the lack of vocabulary some children have makes it really hard for them to reach the expected level in reading comprehension. We have initiatives throughout the school to develop vocabulary, including story time for every class, vocabulary walls, etc, but it is near-impossible to bridge the gap that is created before school even starts of children who grow up in vocabulary-poor homes.

I'm in the irked corner. Hinds is being quoted from the text of his speech “It is a persistent scandal that we have children starting school not able to communicate in full sentences, not able to read simple words,” Hinds will say.

Maybe in context of full speech he means 'not able to read within a few months after starting school, but as written, it's pretty ridiculous. Some kids won't speak in full sentences b/c they are shy. It is not the job of preschool teach them to read lots of simple words. Teaching to read is a specialist skill, parents aren't supposed to all have it. Grrr.

Everyoneiswingingit I totally get that it’s not really aimed at me - but what do the parents that donreasing with the kids know about me? Nothing. It’s the casual judgement that my kids are poor readers so therefore I’m a shitty mum who never gets off her phone.

As I said I’m normally able to brush off this sort of stuff because I know I’m doing the best I can - but this stings. I’ve always harboured some worry that my early birth and TTTS could have been avoided if I’d done something differently. I know that’s not right - but it’s practically the only thing I have a parents guilt about. Because I have no control I guess.

I wonder if the fixation on "free-flow/child-initiated everything" in some nurseries is wise.

If a child is not being read to or doing craft activities at home and has a poor vocabulary when they come in, they are unlikely to spontaneously "choose" story time or craft activities. While I know all nurseries are different, I do hear reports of staff in some nurseries being told that they shouldn't be structuring activities or actively encouraging children to do things, that children should just choose whatever activities they are immediately drawn to (even if that means that a kid with poor verbal skills chooses to spend inordinate amounts of time lining up toy cars or obsessively running sand though their fingers by themselves at the sand table).

The nursery my friend used had got rid of snack time because everything was supposed to be free-flow. They used to have the children gather together and learn how to pour and serve one another and interact verbally with each other. Then the staff were told that everything has to be free-flow, so now the kids just wander up to the table and grab things and wander off again. Perhaps this is not a problem for the kids of middle-class switched-on parents who teach them motor skills and social/verbal skills related to food and table-sitting at home, but many of these kids probably don't sit down to meals at a table at home--I can't help feeling that this is depriving them of an opportunity for learning some important stuff.

These are just examples, but I think it is part of a wider issue.

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira

This isn't about children who genuinely have difficulties - it's about those who are able but have been neglected

Teachers can tell the difference between a parent who works with them and a parent who 'thinks it's the teachers job'

The latter are taking the funding from your kids -

Actually they don't often "tell the difference between parents who work with their kids and don't" - I've gone to so many professionals with DD2 and the judgement and assumptions are really really sickening to see. Give it five minutes into the appointment when they ask what I did for a living pre-children (harder to work at present because of all the chuffing appointments) and find out I was a primary teacher and the attitude shift is pretty incredible to watch. It's like immediately you suddenly become someone who got unlucky with the grand lottery of neurodiversity and not just a shit parent who shoves the kids in front of the telly and an iPad for a quiet life (Ben and Holly currently serving the job at the moment).

Like Diana I get really really fed up with that judgement and it starts things off on a negative level from the outset when agencies are trying to engage parents - not piss them off and alienate them more - fuck it, it's lonely enough having a child that's "different" as it is.

Holy mother of monk. Apologies for not being back - I'll have a read...

I get really really fed up with that judgement and it starts things off on a negative level

But that's the point isn't it?

They are trying to weed out the child with genuine difficulties and those who have been neglected

Both now needing extra help, when a bit of parent input into the he neglected ones is all that's needed

My eldest couldn’t read before school. He had memorised a few books and could pick out a few words/his name but couldn’t read with fluency or comprehension

He loves reading and picked it up so quickly at school and now about to start high school with a reading age several years ahead of his actual age. I defy anyone to tell he couldn’t read til he was 5!

As a mother who has a daughter that has speech and language difficulties, it would be wonderful if the government had not cut SALT funding down to the bare minimum so all the burdern gets placed on the schools to help these kids with additional needs.

Maybe the Tories should think about all the funding cuts before they go after the parents. Seems lot people are falling for it, again everyone for themselves attitude.

Yes some parents will be neglecting their children when it comes to reading etc but that is why schemes like sure start were so important but again they been cut.

Stuff like this always worries me. Ds's birthday is the end of August, so essentially he will have been 4 for about a week by the time he goes to school. I genuinely worry how much further behind he will be compared to other 4 year olds. He's also tiny which makes he seem a lot younger. When you look at what he can say for his age, he's doing really well, but put him in a room with other children who are 6 - 9 months older, the difference is staggering.
Me and dp do our best, but I've no idea how to get teach him to read. I thought school teach phonics and not recognition anyway?

Some kids won't speak in full sentences b/c they are shy. No they can 'speak in full sentences' but are too shy to actually speak in front of others.

super you could always defer him starting Reception for a year, new regs make this a much more viable option. Having said that my boy is the youngest in his year (July) and has managed fine. Best thing for you to do at home - read to him (and discuss content), do nursery rhymes and get some magnetic letters so you can teach him letter sounds. School can pick up the rest.

I think that the general issue of children actually being able to read has been misconstrued. Everyone has valid opinions on the current state of education but if we strip this back there is much validity in children being able to do some tasks by the time they start school. This needn’t be advanced skills in literacy, but, as previous posters have said, the ability to understand instruction from a teacher, how to use a toilet properly (FWIW) back in the early nineties my own DC had to be dry just to start at the kindergarten they went to - aged 2. Being able to sit at a table and use a set of cutlery etc. Form proper sentences even if the language is simple, such as ‘please may I go to the toilet?’ Not ‘need a poo’ etc. I’ve used that example as it happened in a supermarket recently and the child was easily 6 years old. Just plain old simple manners. Unfortunately we do live in a world where (some) parents do not like to take on the responsibility of being the parent. Witnessed recently on a plane journey where parents allowed a child to watch an iPad for the full trip without headphones. Ironically it took a teenage girl to politely offer her headphones to the parents, who had promptly both nodded off on take off. Schools are here to educate but parents must enhance this with some life skills.

With thirty children in a KS1 class it is impossible for the teacher to regularly hear individual readers. Books and reading diaries are sent home every day but so many parents don’t bother to share the book with the child or write in the diary. Their child slips further behind those children who are heard read by their parents every day. Make reading together part of your daily routine.

I think that resources would be best spent on educating parents to be as to how to interact with their babies. Babies, IMO, are FAR more intelligent than people generally accept. They have to interpret their surroundings and learn from what they see and who and what they interact with. So the more they take in, the easier it is for them.

I see so many parents that do not have a chatter with pauses for reply with their babies, it's very hard to do that with baby in a forward facing pushchair. Slings are so much more social being nearer head height, they encourage interaction.

@safetyfreak
Yes, I found it a bit offensive too. It is as if they forget SEND. Andy Burnham did this with his school readiness scheme.

However, those children who are coming into schools, their parents need unpatronising targetted help. Surestart can be daunting and patronising to those in most need. At ours, we attended a lot until DD was unable to manage stay and play I heard a lady telling a worker that she couldn't get her child to eat meals. While later lady gave the child a banana. The worker bounced up and accused the poor lady of giving the kid too much snack. I was told sausages were unhealthy. Also, no adjustments for impairments.

My DD is 3.5 and has ASC and some language issues around conversation. She is however, segmenting and blending, even reading a red jolly phonics with understanding now. She can also hold her pen, write some letters and numbers, and oddly enjoys simple sums.
We've had to fight for dx and appropriate salt. I feel a bit victimised by Hinds, I HAVE worked hard at home with not much help whatsoever.

Everyoneiswingingit, I learned the Alphabet from Big Bird on Sesame Street 😂

meh. toilet train them first before school, they'll catch up with reading

I felt a bit guilty that I hadn't taught my son to read. She said "They all level out in the end, and actually you taught him something more valuable to us. You taught him to sit quietly when asked, to dress and undress himself, to put his own shoes on the right feet, and to use a knife and fork"

Why do you care that it’s more valuable to them? What’s more valuable to your son? Many, many children can do all the things you mention above and read when they start school. That is such an anti intellectual comment, as though teaching a child to read suddenly prevents them being capable in other areas. Sorry you feel guilty but don’t act as though other people are ruining something for their children by allowing them to read.

And no, they don’t all level out in the end. If that was true why would people constantly be asked to read to their children? She was trying to make you feel better.

No, what she was saying was that in order to learn in a class, a child must know how to sit and listen, and actually, she was trying to be tactful about the fact that the child I was talking about was disruptive in class, and caused difficulties for the teacher. As for the other things, if you are teaching a class of thirty children and you need them to change for PE, it's helpful to have children who are able to get dressed and undressed by themselves. As for the reading, my children were read to every day from when they were babies, and by the time my son was 7, he and the other boy were on a level. And why on earth would I not want my child's teacher to have an easier life? Surely if her life in the classroom is easier because the children are independent and cooperative, she has more time to spend actually doing her job, which is teaching the school curriculum, and not the things that should be taught at home.