to wonder why kids need to be able to read BEFORE starting school

[M3lon]

Just reading this.

I don't get it. Surely if you are in charge of the education system it makes more sense to address the issue of why children that start behind never catch up than to try and work out how to make sure all children start with exactly the same abilities and experiences on day one - which is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, because children develop at different rates, are actually different ages when school starts and have starts in life that you can't make even across the board without some major re-plumbing of society as a whole.

AIBU to think the minister for education should focus on fixing the bit he is actually in control of, and make schools somewhere where getting behind doesn't mean you can never catch up?

I actually find it astonishing if a child with no extra learning needs doesn’t read at the very least simple words at around the age of 4
Words are everywhere around us and surely if a child is exposed to the world they will automatically realise that words communicate.
One of my children had a severe speech difficulty due to physical abnormalities. He could still read by age 4 and continued to be a good reader. The other child had no extra needs and read at the same age with the same outcome. It wasn’t anything forced it just occurred naturally. Eg when reading to them they wanted to join in and wonted to know what shop signs said etc.
The children I have met who couldn’t even read simple words were neglected in some way. Surely now that all children are given the wonderful opportunity of free nursery hours it should become a rarer occurrence

If children are in an environment where they hear the spoken word frequently, are spoken to and read to, they are more likely to acquire appropriate language skills and the ability to communicate effectively.

If children are cared for physically, in terms of shelter, food, clothes etc, but are ignored in the sense that their parents don’t communicate with them using the spoken word, it isn’t surprising that their language skills are missing or delayed.

Technology has much to answer for in this regard.

@Believeitornot yes and the worst is that central government can wash its hands of responsibility, or think they can. There’s no accountability anymore because it’s all ‘local government’ making the harsh decisions.

Exactly @Grandmaswagsbag

I regularly write to my local Tory MP to remind him that I do know what his government has done to local authorities.

But sunshineandroses1 funded hours are only 15 or 30 per week, mostly term time only I believe? So most of the time the children are at home with their parents. I've come across 3 year olds couped up in a top floor flat who don't go out for days, 50" plasma TV blaring constantly, parents glued to phones, no books. They could barely babble.

I'm always coming across parents or care givers who hand their young child a screen in the supermarket for the peace. Mine are 4 and 7 now and have always helped me write the list (4yo plays the memory game), carry the basket/put the trolley coin in etc I now let them pick the fresh produce and it's a game trying to find the item with the highest number on it (longest date) etc They load the conveyer belt.

At Dr's and dentists waiting rooms we bring a book. Others get given a phone.

It's so sad.

You do know there’s nothing actually wrong with tablets and phones yeah? My children have their own iPads (nearly 4 and nearly 2). Nearly 4 year old starts school this September and can recognise 3 different alphabets and read simple words. Don’t be so judgey.

Angelicinnocent I hope social services are involved with that little boy.

It’s quite ironic that the OP doesn’t appear to have read and fully understood the article.

As others have said it’s about children having the language necessary for a 4 year old and being able to recognise “simple words*, eg their name, Mum, etc.

I have worked in schools and it’s blindingly obvious that the dc who start school without basic language skills, very rarely catch up.

Being from a deprived background in early childhood is what makes the difference to outcomes later on in life. Yes there are exceptions - I was one - but that’s what the evidence shows You can come from a background where money is in short supply but succeed academically because you were read to and had lots of interaction with other people.
There are different sorts of deprivation.

What littlebadgers said.

I know a boy in dd's reception class. When he was 2 and 3, he was always in the pushchair with an iPad and a dummy. He started school barely able to form comprehensible words, never mind sentences. The mum is now paying a fortune for a slt to come to school for him.

I feel bad for her- she just didn't know it was such a big deal.

Exactly where sure start would have worked - with a bit of friendly advice.

They don’t!! Sharing books with your children is really important and having books in the house. We always visited the library, etc. My dd couldn’t read at all before starting school and is now excelling two years later and reads all the time! The most important thing you can do for your child is talk to them, all the time, about everything as language is the key to everything else!

Shame the conservatives scrapped the sure start initiative as that went some way towards giving kids and families a start in literacy right from the get go.

I thought they had only scrapped it in areas where it wasn't being used by the people it was intended for.

A quick google seems to indicate it is indeed still generally running, despite many individual centres being closed.

@derxa yes but the general rule is that deprivation sets you back. And that gap is very difficult to close after 5.

NotUmbongoUnchained if that was aimed at me then I'm sorry if I came across as judgemental. It wasn't my intention (but re-reading it I can see now it does look bad).

My two have been using tablets since they were around 2.5/3 too. But I truly believe there is a time and a place. They are allowed 1hr per day, after lunch or school depending on if it's term time. Weekends are a bit more relaxed, and they get to go on the XBox for a bit too.

But the difference is that they are read to every single day, and the book cases in their bedrooms are bulging. I'm a Bookstart Corner and library Summer Reading Challenge volunteer. They have a balance. Some kids start school not knowing which way around a book goes, but can unlock their parent's phones and play Roblox. That's not right.

The point of sure start centres @Firesuit was so that they were universal to reduce any issues of stigma. The Tories spun the line about not being used by the right people etc.

Is it any wonder we have issues now later down the line.

The beginning of the article is misleading. Many children can recognise/remember simple words including sight words like ASDA, TESCO, their name.

3Iittlebadgers😀 Explained it well.
This is a fact. Children are starting school with limited speech and language skills. These are not children with SEN but are often from deprived backgrounds. Many don't have books at home and don't please blame the closure of libraries( although a crime) because the parents wouldn't bother to take them anyway. They are not read to at home or encouraged to read their key words or books when they start Reception.
I spent nearly an hour a day last year developing speech and language skills with Reception children who were behind their milestones. I predicted this would happen more when mobile phones came out. Many mums can be seen talking on mobiles whilst ignoring their child in the pushchair.
I have been informed I am going to be working on developing a new language programme this year. Last years children developed well but many are still behind their peers despite the input of two very qualified and respected teachers and teaching assistants and the programme we followed. One of the children has read every night at home( home school diary entries) and is reading sentences fluently but needed some comprehension experience as she is a pupil with EAL. She has developed well.

To some of the mumsnet posters who have written about their children some of you have exceptional children who have books and are encouraged to read with interested parents. The article is talking about children in deprived backgrounds whose parents are often not interested and maybe can't read very well themselves. The percentage coming into school lacking skills like listening, sitting, taking part in a two way conversation with more than two word answers is increasing. It is partly why nursery hours have been increased to help these children.

Going Rogue that sounds marvellous and I will enquire when I retire in a few years. Until then I will try my best to help bridge the gap for these little ones. They really enjoyed last years programme and so did I.

The good news about Children's Centres being for targeted families is the worm is now turning. I've just been trained to deliver a parenting programme (EPEC) which is Universal - hurrah! I never believed centres and programmes should be for target families only. It causes division and stigma. All down to funding cuts and austerity again tho isn't it...

The most important thing you can do for your child is talk to them, all the time, about everything as language is the key to everything else!

I agree - a lot of kids have no idea what the teacher isn't talking about so can't follow instructions or complete a task

Example in a year 1 class I volunteer in 'Me go toilet?' 'Me have drink?'

Another little girls will say 'shoe' as she doesn't know Wellies or Sandles

She can't describe things as everything is 'big' or 'small' has no idea about huge tiny enormous etc

Can't place things in front behind next too - everything is 'there'

They are either neglected, babied, or have parents with limited English.

It makes the gap not only widen academically but also self confidence and in a lot of cases leads to problems with behaviour

This isn't about your average capable child.

because the parents wouldn't bother to take them anyway

How do you know? Some of them may not have done but some of them may have. You’re tarring all parents with the same brush.

The reasons are varied and complex, which is why you cannot take one thing in isolation eg use of technology. It could be a lot more than that e.g use of technology because parents are tired and trying to do too much so use an iPad instead of interacting. That’s just one example. It could be something else!

There are a number of language and literacy-related skills that children ideally should learn before starting school but they DO NOT need to be able to read. They need to know about books and concepts of print but it is much more important to read TO your child. Children in this country start formal reading instruction very early and for many children anything more than learning letter names/sounds at home before they start will be very difficult and not necessarily helpful anyway. I say this having learnt to read at home myself - but I was definitely ready and receptive for doing this. My own eldest child wasn’t and actually really struggled with reading during Reception but he’s really ‘clicked’ with it this year (Year 1) and is one of the top readers in his class now. He’s also the youngest, which I think helps explain why he wasn't really ready when he started school. He’s always had very good language skills but I would have been doing him NO FAVOURS trying to get him doing anything more than recognising letters before he started school.

www.readingrockets.org/article/what-preschoolers-need-know-about-reading

Lots of interesting posts since I last read ...a whole new page.😄

OP has missed the point of the article. It's saying that schools can't compensate for lack of input from parents. Schools can't be expected to level out children who have lots of stories, books and conversation with those whose parents don't provide this. It's not possible for schools to give young children hours of one to one time that their parents should be giving them each week.

I volunteer in a primary school with three year one children. These children don't have books or jigsaws or drawing materials at home. They all have their own x box so the problem is not due to poverty. I spend 2 sessions with each child per week. There is no way this level of input can be provided for every child that needs it. Even if it could, parents could easily do several hours per day just talking to their child which would help massively. Even parents who are uneducated themselves can talk to a child about everyday things and take them to the library

They’ve also been banging on about this for decades - it’s something that needs a lot of investment in early years provision, which I really can’t see this government ever doing ☹️

I currently teach in year 1 and the amount of children who still cannot read coming into year 1 is worrying!

They come into school so low that they are building language in reception! It's such a shame, some of them are not able to sit and listen to a 5 minute story but will happily sit and watch tv or tablets for hours. Most children coming into school I think should be able to recognise certain words especially their name and familiar words to them from reading. It's so sad because the gap only gets bigger as children who can already read flourish and those who can't just get further behind. Schools are losing support staff at an alarming rate and when you have 30 children there is only so much a teacher can do in a day/week/month to teach a child to read from scratch. Never mind the effect tablets have on their eyes but that's a different story!

I am a Reception teacher and it makes me so angry that parents feel pressure to teach their children to read before school. There is NO expectation that children should be able to read before they come into Reception. Last year, only one child out of thirty could read when they started in my class, and it hasn’t held them back at all. Four is so young anyway and comments like this really don’t help. I agree with sharing books with children and helping to develop a love of books, and that’s why I do in my class, but why is there this rush to teach children to read? I wish we could focus on developing children’s language skills without this pressure to teach reading and writing. Maybe a focus on listening, understanding and speaking during the Reception year would help that 28% who don’t achieve the Communication and Language ELGs.