to wonder why kids need to be able to read BEFORE starting school

[M3lon]

Just reading this.

I don't get it. Surely if you are in charge of the education system it makes more sense to address the issue of why children that start behind never catch up than to try and work out how to make sure all children start with exactly the same abilities and experiences on day one - which is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, because children develop at different rates, are actually different ages when school starts and have starts in life that you can't make even across the board without some major re-plumbing of society as a whole.

AIBU to think the minister for education should focus on fixing the bit he is actually in control of, and make schools somewhere where getting behind doesn't mean you can never catch up?

Never what you’ve said is exactly what the minister was suggesting!

Regarding Sure Start, I was referring to the initiative that gave every single child a book when they were born. I believe this was scrapped by the Conservative party when they came to power. I stand by my original comment that this, alongside the cuts and closures of libraries is bound to have had a detrimental effect on the children who needed that support most. The volunteer library initiative described by a pp sounds great and is a step in the right direction but if the government is serious about improving literacy for children they need to be focusing on the early years and looking again at all those short sighted cuts that were made to vital services.

@Neverstopdreaming the article is really about developing language, listening and comprehension skills in children who have missed out at home. The headline is misleading.

@FASH84

Speaking isn't always linked with reading and writing or parental attention. My 2yo will write his own name, spell cat and dog, knows all his numbers (matching items to number cards) and we read three or four books a day, sometimes more. He barely says a word though.

Believe it or not
Ido know because we take our children on school trips to the library and many Year 2/3's have NEVER been! They didn't even know such a thing existed and we get them a library card so that when they are old enough they can access the little library in their area by themselves. I tell them exactly were it is and that they can take books out by themselves. We also take books out on the day, the librarian reads two stories to them and is on hand to help after she explains how the library works. It is one of the best trips we go on and it is free. The children love it. We usually take several classes on World Book Day when most are dressed up and it is quite a sight in our small city. It is a shame those interested and excited children are not taken by their parents. We do have some who have been lots of times and a couple who go with parents or grandparents.

Cousinit - bookstart is still going strong here. My DS got his lastest bookstart book about 2 months ago- he's 3.

I think part of the problem is that some children arrive ill-prepared for reception because their parents haven't prepared them and others because they just aren't developmentally ready yet.

I'm thinking of my friends 4 yr old boy, still looks like a bit like a toddler and has an afternoon nap etc...he barely seems ready for reception and it's not because my friend is feckless, her DC do crafts and read stories and go on outings etc...

But re: the first group of children, well what do the government expect when they cut funding to sure start, speech and language, libraries etc...not everyone can afford paid for baby and toddler classes.

@Grandmaswagsbag Yeah I know that but the main thing that people have taken away from his comments is about the reading and that is the problem. The important point he was trying to make has been lost. His ill informed comments are making people worry that it’s a national disgrace that children can’t read prior to school. Reading has become the focus, not children’s communication skills

It’s not about reading before going to school, it’s about having the skills that will make learning to read easier when they get there. The sad truth is, there are a lot of children that are lacking the stimulus to acquire language skills before they get to primary and are therefore at a disadvantage when they get there.

I live in the Netherlands and DD is going through the Dutch system and we have the same issues here. Hence the push for funded pre-school places for 2.5 year olds who are stimulated and whose parents are encouraged to stimulate them. There are also many voorlezen (Reading to) initiatives including the national Children’s Book week.

Learning through play, there was no expectation for children to read or write, the goal was to create an environment where children could learn important skills that would make the transition to primary education easier for them, which in turn put less pressure on primary teachers to bring them up to speed.

It’s great if your child has the necessary stimulation but not every child is afforded the same opportunities.

Oh that's good to know NotAnotherJaffaCake. I have just googled and it seems to be still going. I do remember them announcing several years ago that funding was to be scrapped for universal books from birth but there was a lot of opposition.

I felt a bit guilty that I hadn't taught my son to read. She said "They all level out in the end, and actually you taught him something more valuable to us. You taught him to sit quietly when asked, to dress and undress himself, to put his own shoes on the right feet, and to use a knife and fork"

Why do you care that it’s more valuable to them? What’s more valuable to your son? Many, many children can do all the things you mention above and read when they start school. That is such an anti intellectual comment, as though teaching a child to read suddenly prevents them being capable in other areas. Sorry you feel guilty but don’t act as though other people are ruining something for their children by allowing them to read.

And no, they don’t all level out in the end. If that was true why would people constantly be asked to read to their children? She was trying to make you feel better.

Loving some of the sweeping statements on here. My house contains lots of books. I read, and I read to my kids since they were babies. Every day. They had bookshelves full of appropriate books and library cards (used). My second couldn't read when she started school and to be honest it took her ages to "get it". It was one hell of a slog, and I dare say whatever I'd have done with her age 3 it wasn't going to happen until she was closer to 5. So I was a bit 😯 at this chap expecting all kids starting school to be able to read. It's not that simple, and it's certainly not just a simple case of those who were read to vs those who weren't.

It doesn't say be able to read, it says to be able to speak in simple sentences and read simple words. I am a TA in years 1 & 2 and difference supportive parents/carers/families make is immense. I taught my DC the alphabet and to count to 20, simple words like mum, dad, cat, dog and to write their own names before starting school. Nobody told me too, I didn't work in education then. It just seemed natural to me. Educating a child is team work. I am astounded by how little some parents put in.

*told me to, not too!

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/8225711/Literary-heavyweights-force-free-books-U-turn.html

Gosh I am quite out of date with my information, sorry

Even if they really wanted to, it’s extremely difficult. Breaking family styles of parenting is very tricky - not least because extended family are likely to attempt to scupper it “what are you doing that for?”.

My daughter has speech and language issues and came into school not being able to speak in sentences and she has learning difficulties.

I found the article quite offensive as some kids even with lot of support from parents will naturally just struggle.

safety Of course, children with learning difficulties, whatever they may be, are not going to have the same expectations put upon them.

I have fucking steam coming out of my ears about this useless twat Hinds deciding to jump on the bandwagon of bashing parents for this.

DD2 comes from a very language-rich home... still has fairly severe speech problems and we've waited a YEAR for speech therapy - and the bloody first appointment the therapist's eyes lit up seeing which school she goes to and promptly started trying to offload it all onto school and bump her off the list.

He can start bashing me for my kid's language when he sorts out the fucking system that told me for years I was imagining the problems, that she'd get better and there was no need to do a referral, and that "oh no we've changed the criteria last week and now she doesn't qualify" all the bloody time. There used to be a really great drop in session with the speech therapy team at the local children's centr.... oh wait... cut.

So if that moron starts fucking blaming ME - he can fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more.

And we busted our absolute arses at home - to the point that despite her speech difficulties, we got phonics really well grounded and she's reading above the norm for her peers. Absolutely busted our arses with phonics games and activities and books and everything - but by heck has the system completely bloody well failed us.

Speaking isn't always linked with reading and writing or parental attention. My 2yo will write his own name, spell cat and dog, knows all his numbers (matching items to number cards) and we read three or four books a day, sometimes more. He barely says a word though.

knows all his numbers (matching items to number cards) - he has the concept of number and has good matching/visual skills

Speaking isn't always linked with reading and writing or parental attention.- speech and language are two different things. If you don't have the knowledge of the label e.g. 'tree' = concept- a tall plant with a trunk and branches made of wood. then you can't learn to read that word with any meaning. Children learn that link from people talking to them

I agree Neverstopdreaming. Some children are just not ready. I have four. The eldest was beginning to read at 3 still devours books reading 2/3 a week. He had finished reading scheme by 8 and was on free choice like The Hobbit. The second was a robust get up an go boy who wasn't as interested and went to school at five and learnt to read in his first year but not as fluent as DS1 however both were read to and read to me every day. DS3 started at just four ( moved countries) and had a bad start as he was very poorly and nearly died just before. He could only attend part time. We again read stories at home which he loved but he wasn't fluent till about 6-61/2. DD wouldn't be held back and was wanting to know letters at 2 1/2-3 and was beginning to read at three when she started school( village primary where they had eight full days in before term) and was reading fluently by 1st term (At Christmas) so some children despite the same input are just not ready.

The children I was talking about are not ready to access reading because their language skills in general were so behind and the pressure on teachers to have them at the same stage as a child who has all those skills when they arrive at nursery or school is enormous.

I agree it is a shame Sure Start funding hasn't continued in the same vein. I think we only have one left in our city.

This thread has created a lot of interest OP and is moving so quickly I can't keep up. Really must go and do some more de-cluttering of school stuff and housework! Will look back later and read all. Thank you for starting the thread.😀

@sparklewater he doesn't do any of those things either and is given a tablet to watch when he eats. Lack of interaction and communication has clearly had an impact on his communication, language and literacy

My son taught himself to read in the first term of school as he was bored to death of how slow the phonics was going and wanted to read books with words so seemed to figure out phonics for himself. He’s now at the end of year and has spent this year bored to death as he has books too easy for him and school won’t move him on.
Phonics lessons have also had issues as in those he is bored and messes about.
Imo much better for your child to read at average level, I.e. not read before school, and not have to deal with the fallout from boredom.

I’m sure most primary teachers would prefer reception children to be continent, able to dress themselves including tights and tie(where worn), share and socialise, use cutlery, be able to sit and listen for half an hour and do as they were told.
That said, many children with parents who sing nursery rhymes, who count with their children, who read to them from birth, who use social sight vocabulary and who encourage exposure to a rich vocabulary DO teach themselves to read before they start formal schooling. That inevitably confers an advantage - the outcomes for children are more parent related than teacher related. We need to stop blaming schools for parental failings.
Of course, as a society we should attempt to address disadvantage but unfortunately cuts have resulted in the closure of many family centres and sure start programmes.

I agree 5000 that there needs to be far more support for the issues your DD faced. But, look what an impact you made on your own. Personally, it's that lack of input from parents whose children have no difficulties that is disappointing and holds children back. I work with children that enter yr 1 as able and capable of flying but because their parents think they can now read , they don't have to do anything and other less able children with better input overtake them.