to wonder why kids need to be able to read BEFORE starting school

[M3lon]

Just reading this.

I don't get it. Surely if you are in charge of the education system it makes more sense to address the issue of why children that start behind never catch up than to try and work out how to make sure all children start with exactly the same abilities and experiences on day one - which is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, because children develop at different rates, are actually different ages when school starts and have starts in life that you can't make even across the board without some major re-plumbing of society as a whole.

AIBU to think the minister for education should focus on fixing the bit he is actually in control of, and make schools somewhere where getting behind doesn't mean you can never catch up?

When my oldest son was 6, I was having a conversation with the head teacher, and mentioned that my friend's son had been a fluent reader by the time he started school, and I felt a bit guilty that I hadn't taught my son to read. She said "They all level out in the end, and actually you taught him something more valuable to us. You taught him to sit quietly when asked, to dress and undress himself, to put his own shoes on the right feet, and to use a knife and fork"

All of mine were summer babies and none could read a simple word before they went school. They had plenty of exposure of books, went to part-time pre-school and I did things with them at home as well. It took DD until half way through reception to comprehend how to blend the letters in a word.

DS could barely speak when he started school (he has a auditory processing disorder).

The boys are now 10 and 12, DS1 passed his 11+ very comfortably and loves reading. DS2's CATs put him in the top 5% in the country and he's also a keen reader. DD is still only in year 2, but her reading is well ahead of where it should be for her age.

For many summer borns the current curriculum expects far too much and we need to either change school starting age or reduce expectations.

I've never heard it suggested that they are.

My ds couldn't didn't have a clue about phonics but at end of year 1 can read anything you give him.

I won't be in a hurry with Ds2 either

According to my child, they don’t learn to read until p3 🤔

I could definitely read before I started school, I still have p1 report cards that say I was reading at a year above and could read books well at this stage.
I read to both of mines but they haven’t picked it up yet (ages 5 and 6 respectively).

I think the aim is to encourage parents to participate in and encourage learning in the future. SEN aside, the children who start very far behind will never catch up if their parents don't engage and help.

My BIL and his wife have 2 DC and are trying for another. Their oldest is 5.5 and cannot put a sentence together, dress himself at all and is not toilet trained. He has no balance as he is frequently confined to a pushchair, had never held a crayon or pencil before he started school and has never been read to.

The only time they speak to him is to tell him to stop messing about.

He has no SEN but will never catch up.

Social services are involved but don't consider the DC at risk. They won't allow anyone to help and if anyone (MIL or DH) tries to read to the DC or do jigsaw puzzles etc they stop them seeing the DC until they have "learnt" to keep their opinions to themselves. Direct quote.

I think the "read" in the article is misleading. The concern is largely around the gap surrounding speech, language and communication. The pre-reading skills which children naturally build up at 3-5 require children to be able to listen, attend, understdand. I'm not talking about physically read a book, but things like be able to hear that a simple cvc word begins with a certain sound for example or to start to be able to hear and pick out rhyming strings.

I am a nursery teacher and the gap between children is huge, those who live in a language rich environment, who are spoken to and read to have got such an advantage. There are children going into reception, with the receptive and expressive language you would see in a toddler. These children have no send. Yes it is alarming and something we work very hard to help with, but what they really need is for their parents to interact with them.
I'll just repost 3littlebadger's post. This is what it's all about. Speech and language development and communication skills. These are the essential precursors to reading. Your child cannot learn these skills without interacting with other human beings.

Damian Hind has just been on breakfast news. He made sense and he was extremely cautious in reaffirming that’s he was not trying to dictate but carefully suggested that parents and the experiences gained at home in the early years does impact on progress and the potential to improve their chances in life.

It cannot all be left to schools. Manners and being able to articulate clearly and sensibly are the responsibility of parents. Too often I am left aghast at how parents interact with their children in public.

What 3littlebadgers and Fresta said

I work in a school office and there is so much emphasis on creating a language rich environment at school - even in the office we have had have some training on language development and how to model speech and use questions so that every interaction a child has is one that helps develop language - even me taking the register and putting a plaster on their knee. The teachers are saying that there are more and more children who have problems stemming from not being interacted with much during the critical speech development stage.

They are unofficially blaming smart phones but whether that is true I don't know.

Reading age of 12+ at 4. sure. Everyone should certainly be able to achieve this level of awesome parenting.

HIBU to say that they have to be able to "read simple words"--it's fine if they start school with no reading ability.

However, it is reasonable to worry about poor language skills in the broader sense. Vocabulary and so on.

Exactly what 3littlebadgers said. It’s not really about reading, it’s about language and comprehension skills that are seriously lacking in some Children with no SN because of their early years upbringing.

The headline is misleading, he's not taking about reading as in children should be able to read a thick chapter books before school (although some might!) the article is highlighting the importance of language development in the home as well as developing a love of books and stories. I'm a ks1 teacher and I honestly couldn't emphasise enough how huge the attainment gap can be between those children who are read to, encouraged to do crafts, have puzzles etc at home, generally talked to compared to those who are have lots of screen time and much less adult interaction. There's a lot of parents who assume school will teach their child everything and it's 'not their job'. Some of the children even out of course, but a lot don't. The gap between some children stays all the ways through primary school as the school tries to play catch up on the most simple things like hearing nursery rhymes and teaching children how to hold a crayon/pencil.

Zebra
Indeed. 🙄

A child who can’t say a simple sentence e.g. “I went to the park with mummy,” is never going be able to read such a sentence. Developing speech is a vital prereading skill; put down your phones and talk to your children.

Ah the definition of "read" by @3littlebadgers makes a lot more sense than how I first read this article. We read a lot to our kids and DD could read simple words/sentences when she started reception, whereas DS (due to start in Sept) is still sounding out SATPIN and a few other letter sounds with varying levels of success and definitely doesn't get blending yet. And there's the massive age difference between August born and September born children of course as well.

But read meaning broader literacy makes more sense... It's a misleading statement I think.

Reading age of 12+ at 4. hmm sure. Everyone should certainly be able to achieve this level of awesome parenting.

That’s not usually down to parenting though, it’s the child. I had a similar reading age at 4, it was because I was an absolute book worm and would read all day everyday.

The article does say that children should be able to read simple words.
Sure, if children have shown an interest in this then of course it should be encouraged. But it should not be a target, which is the danger with these initiatives. Because then the children who are not developmentally ready for early literacy, learn from age 3 or 4 that they are not good at reading or words and that is damaging. We have to remember that the UK has one of the earliest school starting ages in the world, with children effectively starting at age four in England and age three in Wales (even though the legal age for starting education is 5, the funding and placing system means it effectively starts earlier for most kids) . They are already being pushed into earlier literacy than most other children in the world. Other countries with later school starting ages have better outcomes and other some other countries are changing to later school starting ages.

I agree though that lots of exposure to spoken language and story time with parents and care givers is a good thing.

I'm a Bookstart Corner Volunteer at my local Children's Centre to help under 5's develop a love of books, stories and rhymes. It really does help their communication and language skills. Referrals come from Social Services, preschools and health visitors who are concerned about their speech development or home environment/bond.

Some families really don't have books in their homes. They don't interact with their children much at all, choosing to give them a tablet (or XBox for a 3yr old for hours) whilst they sit on their phones (for whatever reason. Could be anxiety, lack of education, MH). They never visit the library, and some parents haven't been since they themselves were at school.

After a couple of visits, the children start to get engrossed in Dear Zoo with me, and the parents really start to "get" it. After five or six visits we meet at the library and the children's faces light up. It's amazing to see.

I would urge anyone who can spare an hour a week to contact their Children's Centre to see if you can be trained up to deliver it.

Bookstart Corner Project

The issue is being massively over simplified by the likes of the conservatives.

They need to take responsibility for the fact that they dismantled the Early Years centres which were based on evidence - evidence that shows you have to tackle issues well before a child gets to 5.

It’s easy to blame the parents, which is exactly what he’s doing, but it’s more than that.

This isn’t about being able to read (my eldest couldn’t read before he went to school. The key was that he comes from a home which hasn’t been deprived since he was born. Being from a deprived background in early childhood is what makes the difference to outcomes later on in life. Yes there are exceptions - I was one - but that’s what the evidence shows).

The Tories need to stop with their anecdote led policies (grammar schools, Gove’s madness) and actually tackle issues before the ages of 5.

It’s too late for schools to do anything about it by then c

There’s been a complete assult on libraries due to local council funding cut backs in many rural areas too, so what do they expect. We’ve had to battle several times over the years to keep our local ones open (small towns in rural areas). Most are very well attended. Many families don’t have a single book in the house, so Libraries are vital.

Yes, I saw this article this morning and was thinking that my summer born could only read her name and nothing else when she started reception. (She's just finished reception and got exceeding expectations for her reading.) But it makes more sense reading this thread. I talked to my baby all the time, even while we wandered around the supermarket, and we read every day, etc. It's important for the foundations to be there.

I agree the focus has been somewhat skewed about the "recognising simple words" and that it is more important that they know how to speak in full sentences. It will be an inability to do this that will hinder their reading and subsequent writing.

Sorry x posted with goingrogue &believeitornot

The library cuts make me so angry, especially as they’re the result of Tory austerity.

Local government has been decimated as they were mainly funded by central government. People think they’re funded by council tax but actually most of it came from the centre.

George Osborne made the decision to cut the funding to local authorities by huge amounts.

That’s why we have a crisis in social care. That’s why we have cuts to libraries.
That’s why waste collection is being reduced.
That’s why schools are screwed.

It all comes back to austerity.

And now we have Brexit, we have massive borrowing which has gone up and we have real problems which can’t be fixed by tory slogans.

I’m a teacher. Damien Hinds is a politician. The article referred to is written by a reporter. Somewhere in between something has got lost in translation, as it often does. Either the reporter has used the wrong word, or the politician, relatively new at this, has made a mistake with his wording and it has been misinterpreted. This often happens!
Ask a teacher! No child is expected to be reading when they start reception. They are expected to be reading by the time they leave primary school. At age 11. It is true, and I think most teachers will agree, that children who have lots of opportunity for chatting, nursery rhymes, books, see parents writing a note, lists etc. will usually find reading easier. Similarly, if they colour, paint, do squiggles, ‘writing’ scribble etc, will usually find writing easier when school starts. I think in the pre school years the focus needs to be more on interaction and outdoor play. There is a worrying trend for too much screen time, by far. Way too much. It stunts facial expression recognition and impairs development of empathy. Children under three should never be given phone, tablet, TV, as a babysitting device. I’m sorry. I know it’s sometimes hard, but find other forms of entertainment if you possibly can.