Sensitive ....... FGM

[Mamamiaherewegoagainmymy]

Me and OH were talking last night. He was saying that there's a 'big thing' made about FGM, YET hardly anything about MGM eg surely when baby boys are curcumsized, nothing much ( if anything ) is said. Thoughts?

Fundamentally it's legal to mutilate boys. You can walk into a clinic and pay to have it done then tell the whole world about it and no one will do anything about it beyond maybe some disapproval which can be brushed off as antisemitism/islamaphobia. No child should be mutilated (medical amputstions are not mutilation of course) in any way full stop. Degree of damage, religious culture, rusk of death etc do not come into it. As a society we allow children to be mutilated on a daily basis. We are that disgusting.

@Shumpalumpa that is disgusting. What next, vafibal surgery so that girls have the same look down there as their mothers? Very very creepy.

Also uncircumcised babies are easier to care for and clean, just wipe that is it, no after care, risk of infection etc.

I do think that someone wanting their infant son's penis to look like his father's has an unhealthy obsession over their child's genitalia, yes. Thankfully this practice is dying out in the States, and hopefully within the next few years the numbers of intact baby boys will climb even higher.

Some babies die from botched circumcisions. Healthy babies, bleeding to death, from a non-essential medical procedure! That is unacceptable.

Don't get me started! How this practice is still legal in our so-called civilised society I do not know. It is a disgrace.

Seriously, get your minds out of the gutter.

People also pierce their little girls' ears. Go pick on them.

Shumpa you think that baby boys dying as a direct result of circumcision is an acceptable risk? That as long as they die looking like their daddies it's ok?

It's not my mind I'm worried about in this thread, ta.

People also pierce their little girls' ears

Notwithstanding the fact that I disagree with piercing before the child can reasonably consent, ear lobe piercing is in no way comparable to circumsision.

Just as female genital piercing is ridiculously and erroneously classed as FGM which makes me incredibly cross because it bloody well minimises the abhorrent practice of FGM

theyll a baby boy can just easily die from an infection from an uncircumcised penis.

That as long as they die looking like their daddies it's ok?

Yes because that's what I said isn't it? You are so obvious in your goady trollery, you silly, silly person.

Shumpa just what is your skin in this game (pun intended)? I take it you have a circumcised son, or plan to circumcise your son?

Piercing the ears of children too young to consent should also be banned. But there are degrees of violation. Circumcision is far, far worse than ear piercing. While FGM is so much more awful than both that it can’t even be compared.

a baby boy can just easily die from an infection from an uncircumcised penis.

I really, really don't believe you.

But whatever, I'm done here. This conversation isn't going anywhere and you're right - I've used hyperbole to be goady and that normally isn't my style so I'll bow out of the thread.

Not inclined to disclose my skin in the game when people twist comments into 'you're ok with baby boys dying as long as they look like their daddies'. That's seriously offensive.

@theyllnoneofthembissed

Urm...there is plenty of evidence online of boys dying from complications due to circumcision. Around 100 die a year in America.

A lot of people try to equate FGM and male circumcision but how often do you hear of a circumcised man experiencing either severe health difficulties or inability to enjoy sex? Were that the case, all Jews and Muslims, plus a lot of African men, would be walking around miserable.

Of course circumcision does go wrong sometimes but in general it is straightforward.

A lot of people try to equate FGM and male circumcision but how often do you hear of a circumcised man experiencing either severe health difficulties or inability to enjoy sex?

I think for me it depends on the reason for the equating. So I have no problem with people saying "both practices should be banned" and in terms of the cultural norms behind the two practices there is some similarities in the deep entrenchment of those practices.

That said absolutely of course there is no comparison between FGM and MGM in terms of long term, debilitating consequences and any suggestion of the same would be patently incorrect.

@soubriquet

Did I not say Dh still thought it was an awful practice and needed to be stopped

Er no actually. You didn't say that!

Funny how this has turned into a thread about male circumcision almost entirely now. 'What about the men' REALLY works.

Yes Mrs that is a shame (and totally predictable). But then, in this particular instance I guess the shift is partly because there are actually posters on here defending circumcision/talking about circumcising their sons, whereas no-one so far has been depraved enough to defend FGM.

It is true though that there has never in the history of the world ever been a discussion about FGM that didn’t get derailed into being completely about circumcision though

@EdithSwanNeck If all of this is correct then I have my facts wrong. I apologise

What ‘facts’? You just went straight on the attack, you didn’t present any facts. Do your research next time rather than accusing people of anti-semitism. Pretty brutal of you.

@EdithSwanNeck If all of this is correct then I have my facts wrong. I apologise

What ‘facts’? You just went straight on the attack, you didn’t present any facts. Do your research next time rather than accusing people of anti-semitism. Pretty brutal of you.

Indeed, Edith you really should have just omitted the first sentence there and gone straight for the apology. You have no facts, other than the multiple credible sources presented to you, countering your knee-jerk accusations of anti-semitism.

I am very heartened to see the large number of presumably female posters who are defending the rights of boys and infants not to be cut.

However ... this may sound a bit weird, coming from a male who was circumcised as an infant and sort of wishes he hadn't been ... but in my opinion, FGC / FGM is really a much more serious problem and deserves much more attention.

Large numbers of girls and women are dying because of FGC. Even larger numbers are surviving but suffering terribly. Larger numbers yet (probably well into the millions) are being permanently deprived, from a young age, of their fundamental human right to sexual pleasure. Circumcision of boys will be causing a very small percentage of them to die or become ill, and it may reduce somewhat their sexual pleasure, but it does not prevent orgasm and ejaculation; the degree of harm from this to boys and mean is objectively lower.

This thread has the potential to do some real good if it is brought back to being a discussion about various ways to bring an end to the practice of FGC / FGM. I posted earlier about one organisation trying to do that. There are a number of others. This topic being a "thing" right now makes me feel optimistic that real progress can be made, right now.

Since FGM is a social norm in many communities, it is difficult to change. But, once removed as a norm, it should be equally difficult to reinstate.

This is a problem that can be solved permanently with finite resources, if not for the whole world all at one time, certainly for a village, or a set of villages, or a region, and that means a whole lot of innocent girls can be spared from going through this.

What's required is to talk about it, including in public spheres, to choose and financially support organisations doing something about it, and to support - not judge - the brave women from communities where this is a norm, many of who have suffered this, some of whom may have even done it to their own daughters, but some of whom are now understanding that this practice does real harm, is a terrible mistake, so they are willing to face public humiliation in their own communities in order to stop this from happening in the future.

My thoughts are that both are mutilating your child for selfish reasons (unless circumcision is necessary medically). You have no right, as a parent, to cut bits off of your children and physically change their body. And I believe that both should be made illegal. No, circumcision isn't as damaging to the body and doesn't have the painful ramifications, however I think that the decision should be left up to the child (when they're 18) if they decide that's what they want.

Oh and regarding "culture" there are many, many cultural practices which are awful and should have been stopped years ago. For example, bull fighting. Just because it's considered culture, it doesn't mean that it's not barbaric or right.

Oh and regarding "culture" there are many, many cultural practices which are awful and should have been stopped years ago. For example, bull fighting. Just because it's considered culture, it doesn't mean that it's not barbaric or right.

100% agree and it’s heartening to see some areas of Spain have now banned it.

As I mentioned earlier, it’s so incredibly difficult to persuade the victims to reject the practice of FGM when they see it as essential to feel like a woman and ‘need’ it to get married. The deeply buried roots are what need tackling and that’s going to be a very difficult and long process, impossible in some areas, particularly when you read stats like 91% of women in Egypt have been abused. It’s indefensible but deeply engrained in their culture/mindset.

Terry

The reason for that is that while nobody is defending mutilating the genitals of female children, some people are trying to excuse, minimise and justify mutilating the genitals of male children.

Both are wrong.
Both should be banned.
Only one is.