AIBU to be worried about the normalisation of far right politics?

[Apileofballyhoo]

Just that really. I'm interested in what people consider to be far right and what people think causes it and what should be done about it.

I think it's caused by inequality and people feeling hopeless.

thecatfromjapan

I really haven’t

It’s just the same
Still having Miro agressions
However I do live in a Woking class mixed area were the BME community is the biggest however I remember going to Cornwall 7 years ago on holiday and I would never ever go back it was awful

Helmetbymidnight

dont you fucking dare
I have been called a wog a coon I experienced things you will never dream of with the white privallage that you have

Including my own mother in law refusing to see our children and asking dh when he will stop fussing with ethics and marry a nice white lady
This is not brieixts doing you twat it’s because their just racist

Don’t you fucking date what?

The stats are wrong, racism isn’t on the rise, windrush didn’t matter, jo cox didn’t matter, racist rhetoric didn’t happen, Brexit will be great, the left are all awful, Jews all hate Jeremy Corbyn.

The strange world according to me too dear.

It’s something I’ve seen in my family. I have a family member who I think has always been a bit racist but didn’t express it often. They voted conservative for decades but have since been radicalized. Now, they are very vocal about their racist and anti-LGBTQ+ beliefs and circulate fake news. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they also now seem to believe every conspiracy theory going (whether political in nature or not).

I agree that social media has been instrumental in spreading far-right ideology. In the UK you still don’t hear many people proudly proclaiming themselves to be far-right in public, but social media gives them a community to be part of and a platform to share their beliefs.

Whilst I agree that some on the left throw about the far-right label too readily, I think that’s just one side of the political-tribalism coin. As can be seen on this thread, if someone says they are worried about the far-right then other people, who I presume are Conservatives, seem to take it as an attack on the right in general and then start attacking the left in retaliation.

Whether you vote Labour or Tory, voted Leave or Remain, I would hope that you would agree that the far right is dangerous. It is also undoubtedly rising throughout Europe and the US. It was sad but not surprising to see a self-proclaimed white nationalist and neo nazi win the republican nomination in Illinois this week. I don’t think we’re quite at the stage where Nazis could make similar gains here, but if we remain complacent it will happen.

The US has a long history of racist issues with Asians, it isn't new. The same is true of the UK which is why there was a Chinatown strike recently. The UK also has immigration detention centres with indefinite detention and sky high claims of sexual assault and rape. There are plenty of British examples that get hidden and brushed aside by pointing fingers at the US and elsewhere which most here can do far less about.

I think we're in difficult times and people even more are drawn towards simple explanations and solutions during such times. The extremes - of any ideology - give that and need to be resisted.

I agree with much of what you say. Far right views and attitudes are being normalised, and the degree of anger behind the views often expressed is scary too.

But I agree to a point with some of the posters saying "what about the left?" as well.

To me, the country is becoming increasingly polarised. Both the major parties and society as a whole. Its not that there aren't centrists anymore, but the centrists in parliament have very little power and centrist voters have no-one to vote for!
I am quite a lefty on many issues (not all) but I have more in common politically with a moderate Tory and centre right politics than I do with many of those who hold power and influence in the labour party.

The Conservative government is in thrall to the right wing fringes of the party, and there isn't an effective opposition.

The extreme left and the extreme right are feeding off each other, each one growing worse in response to the other. There's so much rage, and what seems like genuine hatred towards those with different political views.

I do think that Brexit has had a centrifugal force on politics, although its not the sole cause.

I expect that any economic downturn, or decline in living standard will make the divisions worse, it usually does. The less there is to go round the more people tend to turn on each other (especially if whipped up by those offering scapegoats in exchange for power).

As you know op there are figures with lots of money and influence behind them who want to exploit the situation to their own ends. It is not always easy to categorise men like Bannon as they don't fit into a neat political box, but many of his views do fit with far right ideology. Whatever you want to call these people, they are fucking terrifying and we should all be wary of playing into their game.

That political compass quiz is a load of bollocks. So many questions where I neither agree nor disagree, but would like to say the premise of the question is utter bollocks.

It is regrettable that many personal fortunes are made by people who simply manipulate money and contribute nothing to their society.

All the answers I'm allowed to give to the question require me to agree that there are people making fortunes by manipulating money and contributing nothing to society.

I actually believe that it is usually close to impossible to earn money by doing something that is of no value to anyone, so the premise of the question is utter bollocks.

Helmetbymidnight

Strange times indeed when someone white with privallage pretends they know more then a black person about racism

But yep you carry on believing no one was called a paki before brexit of told to fuck off back to we’re they come from or told this is our country I think you will find more people are willing to report as just in America before us brown folk had camera phone most white folk thought we were making this shit up also the police weren’t any fucking better

Helmetbymidnight

When you have had monkey noises made at you then come back I might actually take you seriously

right wing = common sense now.

If you're an intolerant liberal, completely gullible and/or part of the Liberal Establishment - obviously you see everyone else - even quite normal people with normal, fair views - as a rabbid right wingers. You use stupid threads like this to proselytize about your views, to virtue signal relentlessly and just spread your flabby apolitical naive nonsense around like a bad smell.

Still, I'm sure you'll get lots of fools agreeing with you and that will make you feel very virtuous indeed.

But yep you carry on believing no one was called a paki before brexit of told to fuck off back to we’re they come from or told this is our country

Did I say that? Nope.

Look, you think voting for Brexit has had no difference on the experience of minorities in this country. The stats show you are wrong, I think you’re wrong and i fear (but don’t know obvs) it’s going to get worse.

Don’t shoot the messenger- you voted for it.

MeTooDear

I am white so I don’t share your personal experiences. I completely accept, as anyone reasonable would, that racism was prevalent before Brexit.

That said, the data shows that there was a huge spike in hate-crime immediately following Brexit. The rate did then briefly dip but has surged again, well above pre-Brexit levels. Do you believe there has been a rise in hate crime since the referendum or that, immediately following the referendum, people were a lot more willing to report hate crime?

Metoodear where on this thread did Helmet say they were white? I think you may be making assumptions.

FWIW my kids and I are white. We are also EU nationals. My kids have been told to 'fuck off home' at school in the aftermath of the Brexit vote - they were born here.

Don't claim victimhood as solely your privilege.

I’m not sure I would necessarily view the Eastern European countries as Far Right either. They are all relatively poor countries with strong national identities and have been oppressed by many different regimes over the years they jealously guard their cultures and identies and traditions. They also never held empires so do not feel they have obligations to former colonies or owe any sort of reparation in kind.

We have chosen in Western Europe that we are going to have a highly diverse society because we believe it benefits us, especially our economy, and because of a sense of guilt over Empire and a feeling we have no real culture, identity or value worth saving

Eastern Europe has decided that they are not open to migration because after struggles and hardships they’ve been through to secure their own culture and identity, they don’t want to dilute that ans throw it away.

It’s a completely legitimate thing to do. To say mass migration is not their thing or that they don’t have the money, or resources to cope with a massive influx.

It’s awful this attitude that countries must open their borders to all comers. Or they’re racists. Countries are perfectly entitled to say that mass migration is not in their countries plans or a thing they won’t be doing it and it is a legitimate choice.

What I do find worrying is that the left feels that anybody who expresses concern over migration or suggests it’s not compulsory for a country to do it then rolls them into the far right.

Another example of how the left dragged the Overton Window for the centre of politics so hard to the left that a country making a totally legitimate choice not to promote mass migration is far right.

@TillllllThen well said. I think these people lost a lot of us some time ago when it became fashionable to knowingly, wilfully misrepresent other people as having malicious intentions for anything resembling a normal opinion.

When you see these people saying someone is some kind of far right nazi you know there's a good chance it's a blatant act of slander. Lie enough in front of people and they become sceptical.

Sadly extremism begets extremism, I fear the potential for serious unrest and upheaval in our previously peaceful democracy is high, and only getting higher.

As Nino^ said, there's a world of difference between your average Lefty, Righty, Conservative, Labour, Liberal, Greenie and the Far Right.

A request for concern about the rise of the Far Right is not an attack on the Conservatives.

The distinction is crucially important.

Because losing sight of that is one of the routes to normalising^ the Far Right.

It's worth remembering that Boris Johnson delivered his resignation speech to a virtually empty chamber. Politicians of all persuasions stayed away in droves. He's disgusting. He has no principles. And a lot of our MPs know it.

Really, trying to equate the Far Right with mainstream politics is enabling its poisoning of the mainstream. It's already managed to get a bit of a toe-hold. If you want to resist, it's important to think about where your lines in the sand are and keep those in mind.

And resist all efforts to collapse the mainstream and the extreme.

Posters who are coming into this thread and trying to ale this all about Liberals having a go at the Right - you're wrong.

I don't know if you're doing this because you are defensive Conservatives or because you're scary authoritarians who are counting down the days before you can happily join an authoritarian Party.

But you are wrong.

There is - still - a gap between the Far Right and legitimacy in the UK. And now is the time to keep it that way.

And widen it, actually.

For those headline only reading people stuck on the Labour is anti semitic trope

that there was a huge spike in hate-crime immediately following Brexit

It is actually in the reporting of hate crime.

That is a very woolly statistic if you are to be totally objective about it.

I have experienced no increase in racism nor has my DS or any of his friends since the brexit vote, but I appreciate that this is just anecdotal.

hate crime figures

Reported hate crime figures, which is defined as:

‘any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards someone based on a personal characteristic.’

Which has been met with people reporting Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, etc for hate crime for some of their comments.

As for Far right watch, whilst it is handy to keep an eye on, remember they made a huge fuss over the murder of Arek Jozwik just after the referendum, as did the Guardian et al, they didn't cover the trial when it was the true nature came out and the actual racist remarks and provocation were from the victim himself, the teen is rightly serving a prison sentence, but the Guardian and Rightwingwatch kind of let it slip by the wayside...

Bias, bias on all sides ....

I have experienced no increase in racism nor has my DS or any of his friends since the brexit vote, but I appreciate that this is just anecdotal.

Things we’ve experienced

“Your husbands family can’t get in now!” (He’s Indian, bloody idiots, it doesn’t affect Indian immigration in that way)

“Your son is a mongrel”

“Dirty p*ki lover”

“Treacherous bitch”

To name a few comments I’ve received. Now granted I’m active in political circles so obviously will come across more vitriol, but this wasn’t an issue before Brexit for me.

I’ve also been asked if he “rapes me like Rotherham” and had someone threaten to smash my door in, so that was nice.

I can’t imagine someone who wasn’t a total racist cunt would do something like that just because of Brexit at which point Brexit is just an excuse for a racist cunt to open their big fat racist mouth. Honestly I’d probably be relieved to know who the cunts were so I could shun them.

Thankfully I’ve never in my life met someone (offline) who would say something like that.

Politics has become far more polarised in recent years.

The centrist, pro-globalisation consensual politics of Major, Blair, Brown, Clinton, Obama, Merkel etc has become discredited in the view of left-wingers because of the financial crisis and resulting austerity, and in the view of right-wingers because of uncontrolled mass immigration. Ordinary people have seen static or declining living standards while the rich have got much richer. They also feel their concerns about immigration and social cohesion have been ignored and dismissed.

As support for centrist politics has collapsed, the populist right and radical left have become resurgent and filled the gap.

This is a scary article

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-trial-runs-for-fascism-are-in-full-flow-1.3543375