Aibu MNHQ does not want us to debate brexit on the main boards

[Quietrebel]

Just that.

Someone shared a link to the Independent's Final Say petition. The most important debate this nation can have right now is on the final brexit deal. This was promptly buried in the 'petitions' section.
This isn't any old petition. It concerns all mums/ citizens. If someone wants to share it with the wider MN community, they should be able to.

That’s not what industry experts are saying.

i dont think you understand time is running out

Well it isn’t and anyway that’s what negotiations are all about. You have to take them to the wire to cut your best deal.

The hysteria is all from one side I think and frustration and fear which I understand as change is always turbulent.

But honestly it will be fine.

Some industry experts by no means not all.

What Aviation Industry experts? Link please.

LoveInTokyo
That’s not what industry experts are saying.

some is a word that should be in there somewhere.

You on the other hand decree it should be assigned to a place with less traffic

Let's use some short, small words to explain this shall we?

If there is less traffic, it is because people are less interested in discussing the topic.

And

Things only get moved (or deleted) if they are reported to MNHQ. Mumsnet is not a moderated site. It has community managers who are here to make sure things run smoothly. They do not - and could not - read every post before it's posted, as the site is simply too big, with too many posts per minute, for them to do that.

They only read posts or threads that have been reported to them

So, if the Brexit petition has been moved, it's because someone has reported it and asked for it to be moved.

There is no conspiracy. And I also think it's hugely insulting to accuse the whole of Mumsnet staff of being pro (or anti for that matter) any issue.

The negotiations should run “up to the wire”. The withdrawal agreement needs to be ratified by all the member states. The government promised parliament a “meaningful vote”. Contingency plans need to be put in place in case we fall out without any kind of deal.

None of that can happen if the negotiations are still ongoing on 28th March 2019.

Time isn’t just running out. It has nearly run out.

And the Tories wasted nearly a quarter of the negotiating timetable holding a pointless general election.

BIWI

Sorry, so I’m not allowed to speak as I find in case it is insulting to Mumsnet staff?

By the way, I reported multiple abusive posts by leave supporters and none were deleted by MNHQ, although pretty innocuous posts by remainers were deleted.

I’m simply telling you what I observed. You can choose to believe it or not, but that doesn’t actually change anything.

If you 'speak as you find' and you're insulting someone on MN, then that's actually a personal attack, which is against Talk Guidelines.

Have you got a link yet from Aviation Industry Experts substantiating your previous assertions that no flights in and out of UK please? It's ok if you don't - obviously no one is an expert about everything, even an academic such as you Tokes

@surferjet
Lovely to see you here
could you answer, for the benefit of AIBU
what three things will be better in your life after Brexit?

@seasawride
But honestly it will be fine.
In which case, same question
what three things will be better in your life because of Brexit?

BIWI

My position is that I was unclear about how the "talk guidelines" were being applied to remain supporters and leave supporters respectively in the run up to the referendum, given that posts by remainers which were not obviously abusive to anyone were being reported and deleted, whereas posts by leavers which were obviously abusive to remainers were being reported and not deleted.

I sought clarification from MNHQ on this point, and on the fact that my account just suddenly stopped working one day, but did not receive a response.

I fail to see how that is "insulting" anyone, as opposed to simply stating something that happened and drawing a personal inference from it.

Hate, you could always use this thing called Google.

Try this link:

www.ft.com/content/612977f0-21bb-11e8-9a70-08f715791301

It is very clear that the UK will fall out of the Open Skies agreement next March.

Even the industry experts such as Willie Walsh and Michael O'Leary who believe there will be a positive outcome seem to be assuming that a deal will be reached, because it is in everybody's interests.

They may well be right.

But the question is, what happens if a deal is not reached?

The likelihood of us crashing out without a deal appears to be increasing by the day.

At last a link and a patronizing comment too. I don't need to Google about something that I have enough knowledge of and therefore doesn't cause me concern. I just wanted to see what you would come up with. I'll have a little look and get back to you.

Link doesn't work - have you got another one please?

Tokes on the other hand you could always Google ICAO and have a little read yourself. It might put your mind to rest about being able to catch a plane to visit your family, so you really don't need to worry about that part of Brexit.

Hate, you could always use this thing called Google.

Well, yes, but you're spectacularly point missing that if you come out with stuff like "that's not what industry experts are saying" with absolutely nothing to back up your claims, people are going to ask you for a link.

Sorry, the article is called "Brexit’s Open Skies dilemma divides Airlines", if you Google the title you should be able to get round the paywall.

Here are some from Reuters:

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-aviation/eu-sends-stark-warning-to-airlines-on-post-brexit-flying-idUSKBN1E62CC (December 2017)

www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-airlines/clock-ticking-on-post-brexit-flights-eu-official-idUSKCN1IJ11D (May 2018)

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-aviation/british-aviation-regulator-steps-up-planning-for-disorderly-brexit-idUKKBN1K022K (July 2018, admittedly this one has a different focus and talks about some of the other consequences of a "disorderly Brexit")

and this one from the Economist talks about the difficulties of negotiating a new agreement with the US.

www.economist.com/gulliver/2018/03/10/will-british-airlines-lose-their-rights-to-fly-to-america-after-brexit (March 2018)

and this one from Le Raconteur also contains some useful info:

www.raconteur.net/business/airlines-skies-open-brexit

The common theme seems to be that the more pessimistic commentators are very worried and the more optimistic ones are assuming that a deal will be done.

For what it's worth, I also think some kind of deal will be done (hopefully before Brexit day), but the point is, there is still a risk that it might not be (which is increasing by the day), and even very temporary disruption would have a huge cost to the economy, as shown by the examples of the rail strikes in France and the disruption caused by the volcanic ash in 2010.

And if the disruption is caused by leaving the EU with no deal then the hit to the economy will not be limited to the consequences of no air travel. Loads of different sectors will also be hit at exactly the same time and for the same reason.

If remainers are hysterical now, they are going to be apoplectic until the deal is done on the last possible day. Then we have 2/3 years to implement it. Plenty of time. Thats how deals are done.

The Aviation Industry constantly minimizes risk and is very, very good at it.. It is an Industry that attracts those able to keep their heads clear and
not go all 'hysterical' in the event of a crisis. Otherwise the Industry wouldn't have the Safety Record it does.

One musn't confuse Safety with other disruptions - Volcanic Ash - safety issue, no planes dropped out of the sky. Disruptions such as French/Spanish ATC go on strike - causes delays, because a workaround takes longer.

And still the planes keep flying and the Industry doesn't go under.

As I stated before there is no Brexit risk because the solution has already been given - the UK operates under the existing ICAO regs.

Thanks for all the articles though and the brief summary which you gave stating some say it will be a problem and some say it won't. I believe, generally that's what journalists do - write articles from different perspectives.

Anyway Tokes hope you've learned a bit about Aviation today and honestly worry away about all the other potential Armada Geddons
you'll still be able to get a plane over to help your family out in post-apocalypse Britain.