Aibu MNHQ does not want us to debate brexit on the main boards

[Quietrebel]

Just that.

Someone shared a link to the Independent's Final Say petition. The most important debate this nation can have right now is on the final brexit deal. This was promptly buried in the 'petitions' section.
This isn't any old petition. It concerns all mums/ citizens. If someone wants to share it with the wider MN community, they should be able to.

I did explain the banning. Aliens or gremlins. Well,it makes as much sense as the theory that and I quote "MN HQ is on it too!"

No it doesn't. HTH.

Have you strayed that far from the path of sanity about the whole thing that you can't HEAR how hysterical it sounds to be shouting "MN HQ is in on it too!"
Listen to yourself.

Back on the "crashing out" point, I agree that this is what leaving without a deal means in practice.

Take the "planes won't be able to take off or land" threat, for example. The agreements which currently allow planes to take off and land in the UK is linked to our EU membership. If we leave with no deal and no interim arrangements to cover air travel, then this is literally what will happen. Probably (hopefully) only for a short time, but even that would have a huge financial cost.

In France the SNCF had a series of train strikes between April and June where staff went on strike two days out of every five. At the beginning it caused genuine chaos. I ended up working from other locations two days a week for several weeks because getting to the office was just too much of an arse ache. There were trains running on my route, but at the beginning of the strikes there were only a few during rush hours and none between about 10am and 5pm. After a month or so they had managed to resume a more-or-less normal service, just with lower overall capacity and fewer trains running. By the end there wasn't really a noticeable difference between strike days and non strike days.

These strikes are estimated to have cost the French economy around 800 million euro.

The UK operates over 60 airports and handles over 8,000 flights per day.

What is going to be the total cost to the UK economy if we are unable to operate any flights even for a single day? A week? A month?

Pretty huge.

For a general idea, check out this old BBC article attempting to quantify the economic impact of the volcanic ash cloud which disrupted European air travel for six days in 2010.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8629623.stm

Nice point dodging there. Impressive.

You didn't really make a point (other than "I don't believe what you are saying", which is up to you but doesn't change what I observed), so I thought I'd address one of the serious issues around Brexit which leavers continue to dodge or dismiss as "scaremongering".

LoveInTokyo

I thought that remainers only dealt in facts and not "what ifs"?

I'm not a Leaver I voted Remain but you're clearly intent on believing whatever the hell you like

BoneyBackJefferson

The FACT is that if we leave the EU on 29 March without a deal and without any transitional arrangements in place covering air travel, then planes will not be able to take off or land in the UK until such time as a new agreement is in place.

The BBC article provides a useful explanation of how costly even a short-term interruption to air travel can be to the economy, based on WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED in 2010 during the volcanic ash cloud incident.

Hope this helps.

I said that leavers are continuing to dodge the issue of air travel or dismiss it as scaremongering. That is true regardless of how you voted.

LoveInTokyo

And the fact is that if we can't fly then neither can the European airlines.

So lets not pretend that its a one sided coin.

You didn't really make a point (other than "I don't believe what you are saying", which is up to you but doesn't change what I observed)

OK, if you say so. I just found it impressive the way you completely stuck your fingers in your ears to what I said and did an ANYWAY post.

My "anyway post" was intended to follow on from my previous post where I responded to you in detail.

You might find this hard to believe, but it took me longer to type something thoughtful about the air travel issue than it did for you to type "but I don't belieeeeeve you so nerrrr!"

Boney the European airlines can contine to fly to other destinations. It is only their travel with the UK that will be affected.

You might find this hard to believe, but it took me longer to type something thoughtful about the air travel issue than it did for you to type "but I don't belieeeeeve you so nerrrr!"

Yes, that's so what I said.

It basically is though.

LoveInTokyo

You are quite right UK planes only fly to mainland Europe. They don't go anywhere else in the world.

So yourself

You are so blinkered that you cannot see, maybe if you addressed your bias you might be able to see the effects that Brexit will have on the EU as well.

If that's all you're taking from it and completely ignoring what I actually did say, that speaks volumes.

Boney As I understand it, air travel to and from the UK is governed by an EU wide agreement that we are party to as a consequence of our membership of the EU. Once we are no longer a member of the EU, we will no longer be covered by that agreement, so all air travel to and from the UK will be affected, regardless of the origin/destination of the flight.

Other EU countries would continue to be able to operate flights to and from non-UK airports.

If that's all you're taking from it and completely ignoring what I actually did say, that speaks volumes.

I described what I witnessed on the Brexit board over a period of several months and explained that my account was blocked without any explanation from MNHQ and that the same thing had happened to several other remainers but I was not aware of it happening to any leavers.

You told me I was being hysterical.

You were basing this on what I have said here, and not on having been on the same boards, reading the threads at the same time and having a different view on things.

So what exactly was I supposed to take from your post, other than "I don't believe you"?

I give up.

On that point I mean. I may be back to say something else in case some wag says "thought you said you were going?"

Well I hope the "points" you make in your future posts are actual points. [smiles]

Well I hope the "points" you make in your future posts are actual points. [smiles]

In other words, they're only actual points if they're something you want to listen to, right?

The "it's a petition so should go in petitions" argument would hold a lot more water if chat and AIBU weren't full of threads that could easily also have a home elsewhere. Very occasionally threads get moved onto other boards, usually where they are asking for specialist information (employment law, special guardianship orders, living overseas etc). But the vast majority of posts - including those "posted here for traffic" - get to stay put.

So why is this different? Why isn't the "you can always hide the thread if you don't like" it retort not enough for Brexit?

rainbows

At the top of this page I posted detailed reply to you, dealing with each aspect of your post.

After I hit "post", I then (trying to get back on to the actual topic of Brexit, how unreasonable of me) wrote a separate post on the issue of air travel, which so many leavers are dismissing as scaremongering. Before I hit "post" on that second post, you made a further post in which - as far as I can tell - you said absolutely nothing other than that you thought I was being hysterical.

You then posted again accusing me of "dodging" your "point".

How did I dodge your point when I responded to your post in detail, and then your second post (which I hadn't yet seen when I posted by comment about air travel) didn't actually contain a substantive point for me to respond to?

You think I'm being hysterical. OK. And...?

I think it's a little unfair to accuse me of dodging your points, when all you are doing is accusing me of being "hysterical" for describing what I witnessed on the Brexit boards in the run up to the referendum (when you have no evidence to the contrary), and to keep haranguing me about responding to your "points", when (a) that is literally all you are saying, (b) I have in fact responded to you more than once, and (c) I am not haranguing you in a similar fashion for not engaging with the air travel point.

LoveIN ICAO Rules supercede EU Rules and UK signed up to that preceding EU. UK CAA would operate on those rules. But then you would already know that.