To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

I’d rather have a teacher who’s had 6 weeks off to recharge their batteries teaching my children, than someone who has been forced to work right through. The teachers I know all work really hard and are just as ready for the break as the kids are. I’ve never met anyone who begrudges teachers their holidays either, apart from disgruntled parents who struggle with childcare in the holidays, and even then it seems to be more of a it’s ok for you, you’re off when your kids are off than a how dare you take time off you should be looking after my children type of mindset. Some people are just bitter when they perceive other people as having an easier time than them, but are unwilling to do anything to better/change their own circumstances. I don’t see any of these moaning people retraining as teachers! In the degree I did, roughly 3/4 of the graduates became secondary school teachers. There’s no way in the world I would have even considered it for myself, as it seems obvious to me that for the educational level needed you are not well paid and it’s bloody hard work. Having the same holidays as your own children would have been the only advantage for me, but not enough to make me want to do it! It’s defini more of a vocation than a career IMO

Lots of thoughtful responses, so far. Thank you. But... any volunteers?! I am seriously asking.

I wouldn't volunteer to train as a teacher because I'd be crap at it. The education crisis would not be solved by having me as a teacher, that's for sure. I'd be adding to the crisis, not relieving it.

Never been jealous of teachers’ holidays, as they have to take them in the school holidays when it’s expensive and all the kids are off school.

followed by the endless "fed up with my own kids I chose to have" throughout August. so much this! So sick of endless moaning about having to spend time with their children. And they wonder why I don't have any...
You couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher

I have just looked up the starting salary for a newly qualified teacher - it is £22,467 outside London. Does that mean a teacher earns £22,467 divided by 12 each month? Or do they earn pro-rata £22,467 according to the actual teaching hours?

We are paid £22,467 split into 12 months. Some of the confusion comes from the way it is done in the US, where in many areas teachers are not paid over the holidays. Non-permanent teachers (agency and supply) are also not paid over the holidays here.

There is also the argument that teachers generally work very intensively through term time (honestly, from 7am to 9pm in school every weekday- stupid opening hours encouraged it- and one full day each weekend in my NQT year- it nearly destroyed me) and so if we were to consider those hours spread out over a more normal working pattern they would easily cover the holidays too and far more in addition. I used to do the maths each year but no longer do as it doesn't make me feel any better about my job!

Some people like me prefer to work like crazy and then get long holidays, whereas others would hate it. I can promise you though the vast majority of teachers are not working standard hours and getting long holidays in addition to that- for most, their working hours are all just squished into term time.

Great isn't it!? Six weeks of bliss! That is my usual retort!!

I think this is why, often teachers are attracted to each other! My sister is a deputy head of a primary school (and the reception teacher) and she has married a secondary school teacher. They understand each other and the demands of teaching however, now pregnant with twins, my sister is wondering whether she can keep up with the demands of it all

The problem is that teachers here get sick of all the "6 weeks off" posts and the more they try to explain the realities the harder the push back from the "Oh yes, but early day finishes and 6 weeks off" posters.

So, in trying hard to do their job, educate, educate, educate, they start to sound as thought they are claiming a lot of hardship.. and then you get posts like I am sick of hearing teachers moan about how no-one else could possibly have jobs as hard as theirs, without acknowledging that the long holidays are a great perk. which only starts it all off again.

annualised holidays Teachers are paid for 195 teaching days over a year, we don't get paid for the long holiday, we have our pay smoothed out over the year!

We get paid for 195 days work (and/or 1265 hours) = 39 weeks.
52 - 39 = 13 weeks unpaid.

I hope that helps.

Agreed. I left teaching but never put in 17 hour days and neither did any other teacher I knew. I also took full advantage of my holidays.

I guess some teachers are perfectionists so will put that time and effort in but it’s certainly not a standard requirement.

I love having my children off school. It is stress free compared with getting them up and out in the mornings. Yes, childcare is a nightmare - even if my husband and I took all our annual leave at different times of the year it wouldn't be enough to cover all the days that our children are off school. But that's our problem, no one else's. We chose to have children, and school is not childcare.

'My family are all teachers and its hard hard work. '
Yes but many jobs are hard work.

I do agree they need a break, everybody needs a holiday but I can also see why people think it's ott to have a whole summer off. Plus half term, end of term, Easter etc etc.

teachers make out that their job is the most highly pressurised, badly paid, horrendous job in the world

Wonder why there's a recruitment crisis?

Tell us the good things about teaching - volunteers need to commit not just to the job but the retraining, and that's a big commitment to do something that sounds so awful.

We get paid monthly. However, my pay covers 'directed time' which is on top of my 8.15-3.15 day. This is time for meetings and training etc. Then there is the marking and prep time, this is usually at least 2-4 hours a night. Technically, we are paid for the whole year, but in reality the only way anyone could justify the low pay we get for the stress, long hours and abuse would be to say that we don't get paid for the holidays. I usually work for 2 weeks during the summer, and at least one or two full days every short holiday.

Of course I envy the holidays. Who wouldn't?

But I'd hate to be a teacher. I want to earn more money than that. Also what successive governments have done to the profession is horrific. The admin burden has ruined the job and resulted in the loss of lots of good practioners.

What gets my goat is when (a minority) of teachers make out that theyre alone in working unpaid beyond their contracted hours. That's the norm in most professional jobs.

I don't get long holidays to recover from those long hours, but on the other hand i get paid more money, so it's swings and roundabouts.

But... any volunteers?! I am seriously asking

To be a teacher? No, the perks of my job are far better. But then I've never seen big stretches of holiday at prescribed times particularly desireable.

My job also gives me time to actually volunteer in a school a couple of times a week.

The problem is that teachers here get sick of all the "6 weeks off" posts and the more they try to explain the realities the harder the push back from the "Oh yes, but early day finishes and 6 weeks off" posters.
Agreed.
Thread about some education issue or other / a thread in the staffroom board where.someone has had a shit day.
Poster - eeeh the way teachers go oj you'd think nobody ever worked hard. ... blah blah blah. Holidays, reference to.the real

teachers try to explain and get exasperated

(See also how many people does it take to explain that we don't have to reply to emails in our holidays)
Liverpool23
I'm the other way. I don't think I could have married a teacher. I do well for work-life balance by teaching standards but other than the 6 weeks when I'd like the company, marrying a teacher wouldn't be my cup.of tea.

But... any volunteers?!

Hell no.

I'm a bit envious of teachers long holidays but it's just about the only bit of their job I'm envious of really.

I couldn't teach for all the tea in China.

It sounds awful but I don't often like other people's children very much and the endless box ticking would drive me nuts.

Like pp have said, there is a reason why there is a recruitment and retention problem.

No volunteering from me. I've been looking after children for almost 40 yrs now in a variety of settings but you couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher.

I wouldn't discourage my teens from being teachers though, we need more great teachers. One of them would make a great teacher I think (although he's not planning to at the moment)

I'm not 100% sure how our pay is worked out. I do know that when we have been on strike our pay is deducted by 1/195. We work 195 days. Part time teachers who claim extra hours if they work extra hours would gain a daily rate. The daily rate comes out of 195 days of working.

I love my job and yes it can be stressful and the workload is often pointless and ridiculous. But I love it. I dont feel guilty about the holidays because it is unpaid.
That said, many parents dont realise we moan, a lot, because education has been rehashed so badly That it is unfair on the children.

Rushed GCSE specs, rigourous new curriculums, lack of funding for resources and adequate TA/ behaviour support. Schools employing unqualified staff. THOSE are the problems in education! Sod the holidays what about the kids!

At the moment I work from home as a childminder term time only. I get paid for 39 weeks a year but I add that up and divide by 12 so that I get a set monthly payment. I imagine teachers pay is worked out in a similar manner.

""Me: “hardly anyone else works from 7 am - midnight for less than 25k a year”""

That must be specific to you. I know Teachers and are related to some, they don't work those hours.

My DD, who is a MH Manager works similar Hours, for a lot less, so do a lot of people who working MH.

Senior Nursing assistants also do lots of hours, for a lot less pay. Care Assistants are often paid a £ over min wage.

As an SW I had to put in unpaid hours. So did Family Support Workers and other people in family Services. My Mum did unpaid hours as a Lolly-Pop lady, so children who had to go to school early could safely cross/be supervised. If you work in some services, I just think that's how it is.

""teachers make out that their job is the most highly pressurised, badly paid, horrendous job in the world""

Some do. I was unfortunate enough to go to a gym that had a large Teacher clientele, I soon left.

Pengggwn, you can't volunteer to be a Teacher in the UK. Some schools don't even allow unpaid TA's, who were at one time Voluntary Workers. Many people Volunteer with their local schools/community and Family Services.

I'm totally jealous of the holidays - just not the job that goes with it. No bitterness at all.

I work in a school - but not as a teacher. I also get big holidays - but am not paid for these, just like agency teachers and supply teachers are not paid. I also only get paid for a very minimal number of hours a week but some people look astonished when i either work ONLY my hours or claim overtime if I have to work late.

The teachers I work with, (and my DM before she retired) all work hard, and all complain about the long hours marking and people whinging about their holidays. Frankly - yes, they'll work long hours in term time but I don't know any of them who won't also take significant time to recharge in the summer. And fair enough.

BUT I do get tired of all the "but I work 7 to midnight for 25k" malarkey - yes, so did I, in London, for no extra pay and a very crap 28 days off. Other professions also require/expect their staff to go above and beyond contracted hours. But you knew about it when you signed up for the role.

And no, I wouldn't teach. I thought about it, but retraining would cost me money, my family would be negatively financially impacted by the retraining and my area of expertise is rather niche so no training places nearby either. If the little lot could be remedied, then yes I would. No idea whether I'd be any good though - I suspect I'd need to work on my tolerance levels!