To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

Clavinova

At least she isn't posting links about the independent sector and shoehorning them them in to the state sector.

Now mark my words... there’ll be radio silence for a while and then clavinola will pop up to tell us all she’s been busy having a thoroughly enjoyable day out with her kids - and will then launch into yet another tirade about the minutiae of teachers’ terms and conditions
She’s like a dog with a bone.
Please god if I choose to give up my career I don’t get afflicted with her condition!

@Momo27 let's bet a pile of marking on it. She picked an easy question to reply to and ignored the rest. This is hilarious 😂

Well I'm not one of them, I think they deserve there time off, it's a bloody hard job, I'm very thankful for there hard work.

And I would never want to be a teacher, especially a secondary school one!

Oh fuck! How did I manage not to realise that schools and FE were different? Hangs head in shame....

No, wait! I did know... and didn't post anything that was selective to prove a point, a flat out dishonesty or was in anyway incorrect! Nor did I claim to know something I don't - picks head back up again

Its claims like "Working from 7am to midnight" that annoy people and loose any support you may have had.

But I think this is a reality for many trainee teachers and NQT's. I completed a SCITT course and there was an expectation to put in x amount of hours. Literally, any less and your failed the course.
I used to arrive at school at 7:15am with the caretaker and got kicked out at 6pm. I would then drive home (an hour each way- I had no choice in my placement school) and continue working through dinner and most nights until 10pm. It was worse when we had essays due in alongside this. Those who didn't put the time in either failed or scraped a pass. I know many trainees that went through this.
That said, I have posted previously about how I have a much better work/life balance a few years in.
I will put in extra time during exams/assessment periods or when ofsted are in etc. No I don't get paid for it but then sometimes I'm quite happy skipping out the door at 3 30pm once the children have gone.
If we could do away with some of the needless paper work (my HT requires detailed hourly lesson plans- er, what for?! Changing assessment programs twice in one year. Asked to write rationals for a medium term plans- why?!! Just read the plan! etc) that would tip the balance a bit more and people would say the above in bold less.

Most likely momo.
They appear to hace only been posting a week or 2 and always on education threads so either they are a new user who isn't in a school obsessed with teacher threads or they have name changed for education threads.
Either way we can probably infer goady intentions.

Clavinova? She’s been posting on education threads for years. Never realised she was a SAHM with no actual connection to education. How odd.

I stand corrected noble. My AS must be off then. I don't tend to do it unless there's been particular goadyness.

Its claims like "Working from 7am to midnight" that annoy people and loose any support you may have had

I haven't quite had to do that but I have come close as a head of department implementing changes at every key stage. If I hadn't have made huge short cuts in marking and bought in resources I could have very easily worked those hours.

Does anyone else think @Clavinova could be an ex schools' minister with an axe to grind ...

Ha! @Clavinova is Govey!!

Tw1nsetAndPearls
At one school I was working close to that as a non TLR post holder. It was bad for my health and saw me nearly leave teaching and run back to my pre-teaching career.

It annoys me when people say things like 'talking about long hours annoys people and doesn't do you any favours'. I'm not after favours. That was the reality of my life for a while and I wasn't proud of it (some in that place were though, which is why the culture was problematic in places).

17 years in the profession and really enjoy being with my classes. It's the other stuff that gets me down. I only work 0.6 and don't think I could ever go FT. It is truly exhausting being with classes all day.
I find it depressing that parents over the summer hols moan about their kids. I love being off with mine - just 2 to worry about.
People know before they have kids that they will need looking after when not in school, so it should not be a shock they need to factor this in. Teachers can rarely do school drop offs for 39 weeks a year. Have to juggle childcare for things like parents evenings, after school meetings.
Holidays will always be expensive - not just for the ten or so years the kids are young.
I don't moan about my job, I like young people and enjoy the challenge it offers. However there is no denying it is more exhausting than jobs I have done in industry.
As penguin said if you like the idea of all the hols then come and join the profession

Sorry OP auto corrected

Well, obviously I was going to 'pop' back again on this one. Been away for a few days - had a lovely time, thank you.

Momo27
I think you'll find that it was MaisyPops who resurrected this thread with a personal reference to me.

QueenoftheSilverDollar12
She picked an easy question to reply to and ignored the rest

What were the difficult questions?

Do you have ASD?
No, I've got an LLB - would that do instead?
Am I Govey?
No, I'm much better looking (I'm not his wife either).
Please come and join me in my classroom after the summer break
No thanks, I would be bored - and a bit worried you might have a bottle of Frosty Jack's hidden under your desk judging by some of your posts on this thread.

I do have a question for you though - seeing as you stated that the terms and conditions for teachers in Scotland were broadly similar to those in England, how do you explain that teachers in Scotland get 40 days' paid holiday (equivalent to 8 weeks), whereas MaisyPops is claiming that school teachers in England receive no holiday pay at all?
teachinscotland.scot/benefits-of-teaching/

You will also be aware, I assume, that up until 2011, teachers in Scotland received 66 days' paid holiday but this was reduced after an EU ruling affecting maternity rights, which had allowed teachers in Scotland to tack on 66 days of paid leave to their 52 weeks maternity leave, costing local Scottish councils millions.

I have already posted of course, that teachers in independent schools receive full holiday pay - just thought I'd shoehorn that in again in case any teachers in the state sector fancy a move:
www.atl.org.uk/advice-and-resources/rights-and-conditions/teachers-employment-rights-summary-independent-sector

CuriousaboutSamphire

No, wait! I did know... and didn't post anything that was selective to prove a point, a flat out dishonesty or was in anyway incorrect

I'm not sure why you've added sarcasm and smiley faces - you were obviously suffering from a bout of amnesia regarding your posts at the beginning of this thread - you have indeed been very selective and incorrect

Teachers are paid for 195 teaching days over a year, we don't get paid for the long holiday, we have our pay smoothed out over the year

^We get paid for 195 days work (and/or 1265 hours) = 39 weeks.
52 - 39 = 13 weeks unpaid^

And even the other poster who said she didn't know said clearly that her strike stoppage was 1/195th of her pay for every strike day. Making it fairly obvious how teachers are paid

Except that the Burgundy Book (for school teachers) quite clearly states that where authorised leave of absence or unauthorised absence (e.g. strike action) occurs, deductions of salary shall be calculated at a daily rate .... based on the days' salary being 1/365th of a year for each day of the period of absence

Your argument therefore supports what I am saying with regard to permanent school teachers.

The court cases I referred to earlier are mentioned here in case you missed them :
www.doyleclayton.co.uk/resources/recent-cases/supreme-court-finds-teachers-strike-were-deducted-too-much-pay/
www.gardnercroft.co.uk/journal/many-days-year-teachers-really-work/

MaisyPops
We deserve our holidays

I am not actually disagreeing with you here but permanent school teachers in England and Wales are paid for the holidays
You keep saying that you are paid for term time only - this is not the case - the ATL and Unison appear to agree with me. Many teaching assistants have their salary divided into 12 equal instalments, but they are often not paid for the whole of the school holidays, unlike permanent school teachers:

www.unison.org.uk/news/press-release/2016/09/teaching-assistants-pay-should-be-set-the-same-way-as-teachers-says-unison/

Unlike teachers, many teaching assistants now get paid only during term time. Government spending cuts have forced cash-strapped local authorities to move them to these term-time only contracts, leaving teaching assistants with huge wage cuts, says UNISON

www.atl.org.uk/advice-and-resources/rights-and-conditions/support-staff-employment-rights-summary-maintained-and
Unlike teachers, most support staff members are employed on a term-time only basis. This means being paid only for the weeks that the school is open, e.g. 39 weeks, plus paid leave entitlement

www.atl.org.uk/advice-and-resources/pay-and-pensions/support-staff-pay
Term-time-only contracts also create a disparity in schools because teachers are paid all the year round and therefore receive a far greater leave entitlement

noblegiraffe
I have a very real connection to education via dh (who holds a senior position) and I've attended far more teachers' award ceremonies than you have.

I notice that you've neither disagreed with what I have posted, nor expressly supported what MaisyPops and others are claiming...

My daughter has gone into school today, the third day so far this summer, to sort out the disaster area of a classroom she's been left. She will have to go in again, because she hasn't even started arranging the tables and putting up essential resources yet.

And if she is a permanent teacher she will receive a full days' pay for doing so - as her pay accrues at a daily rate.

I have a very real connection to education via dh (who holds a senior position)

I thought Nick Gibb was gay. Bit sad to define yourself by your DH though - like those ‘I’m married to someone important, AMA’ threads.

I've attended far more teachers' award ceremonies than you have.

I’ve more chance of winning one. What with meeting the basic entry requirement and all...

I'm sorry, are you talking to me? She is supposed to be on holiday, not tidying a classroom!

Sirrah

I'm sorry, are you talking to me? She is supposed to be on holiday, not tidying a classroom
Sorry, yes, cross post. She should blame the colleague who left the classroom in a state!

She has. Her reply was "That was how it was when I got it" 🙄 Not true, because she added her own rubbish to the cupboard! She also took the desk and chair and put them in her new classroom... I think my daughter has an interesting year ahead.

noblegiraffe
Bit sad to define yourself by your DH though

First time I've mentioned it in 5 years - but you asked why I had an interest in education. Not the dizzy heights of Nick Gibb though Perfectly happy with the length of my own career thanks - several ex-teachers I know have dropped down to TA positions with very few responsibilities.

You are still dodging the question of whether you think permanent school teachers are paid for the school holidays or not

Bingo!!