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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

753 replies

Pengggwn · 23/07/2018 09:46

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 02/08/2018 15:11

Quick, buy a lottery ticket Momo, you’re on a roll!

pieceofpurplesky · 02/08/2018 15:13

Clavinova the question has been answered many times by teachers who have contracts that state their holiday times/days. We don't need to keep telling you as it is not sinking in.

Noble you win the best comment by a teacher award today - do you think they will give it out at Clavinova's husbands award ceremony?

Momo27 · 02/08/2018 15:19

Clavinova should be given a special award for services to entertainment Grin

Clavinova · 02/08/2018 15:26

noblegiraffe
Still dodging the question...

pieceofpurplesky
I'd love to pay teachers more - I think we need to raise the entry bar though...

Momo27
Sad thing is - some of the other teachers aren't intelligent enough to understand your Bingo comment...

pieceofpurplesky · 02/08/2018 15:26

Momo and marrying well Wink

Clavinova · 02/08/2018 15:28

pieceofpurplesky
I don't think they would have let you on my degree course...

noblegiraffe · 02/08/2018 15:33

Clavinova why are you trying to drag me into what looks like an extremely boring argument? I don’t think it’s because you actually care about my opinion.

MaisyPops · 02/08/2018 15:35

pieces
It's really simple. Pay is part of the whole package. The whole package is 190 term time days, 5 days inset, directed time, reasonable additional hours to do a professional job and our holidays.

The pay reflects that package.

If term time was to increase, pay would have to go up because the terms of the package have changed, we would be in work more etc.

What I think clavi is trying to argue (though it's largely endless rambling and drip feeds about amazing inside info they have) is that rather than see that the pay is for the package and reflects the terms of the package, we are paid for the holiday because technically we could be working because every day is potentially a working day because we could opt to do some planning (or whatever odd logic they're using). Either way, they've not explained when our actual holidays are if our holidays are technically potential working days.
It's like schrodinger's holidays for clavi.

Clavinova should be given a special award for services to entertainment
A week ago I'd have agreed. Now I think their obsession is quite frankly tragic.
But I am amused that someone predicted a late resurgence prefaced with 'been away enjoying my life...' Grin

BoneyBackJefferson · 02/08/2018 15:45

MaisyPops

the thing is (and it has been said on similar threads) if everyday is a potential working day, then why as part of my terms and conditions are my employers not allowed to set me work on these potential work days.

Unless of course the days are not paid and an employer cannot dictate what I can do when I am not being paid by them.

In fact it says somewhere in my terms and conditions that my employer cannot direct my time outside of the 195 days.

Momo27 · 02/08/2018 15:47

But I am amused that someone predicted a late resurgence prefaced with 'been away enjoying my life...'

She’s not enjoying it half as much as we are!!

Clavinova · 02/08/2018 15:50

noblegiraffe
You most certainly involved yourself - with comments about me first...

MaisyPops
Noble is too intelligent to put her name to some of the nonsense you are posting...if she wanted to back you up she would.

My interpretation of the Bingo comment is - Yes, we are dodging the question - we know you are right but we don't want to upset the status quo...

It's not just me saying that school teachers are paid for the holidays (aside from the multitude of links I've posted) - several teachers, plus a school business manager on this thread are saying the same.

Clavinova · 02/08/2018 15:51

Well, I am enjoying my life as I'm going out again...

MaisyPops · 02/08/2018 15:55

Exactly. I will work in my holidays as part of the 'reasonable hours' to do the job to a professional standard. I have no issue with that (and find people who complain the job doesn't fit into PPA annoying).

The pay is for the whole package. If an element of the package changes then the pay would change accordingly.

Bringing TA salaries into it, as some have, is a totally different matter (I was a TA before retraining to gain experience). Teacher terms are arranged nationally with more union involvement. TA contracts are a minefield.
E.g. Some councils advertises the actual salary and employed people on the actual salary, which already reflected that the job was term time only (very sensible and much lile teacher posts). Then as part of local government restructuring restructuring tried to shaft the Tax by saying 'yes you're paid £10,000 but we want to bring you in line with other council workers so we are going to pro rata a salary that has already been lowered to reflect your terms'. So they looked at pro rata-ing down to 39 weeks and 32 hours.

Other councils got round it by raising the 'full time' salary in order to ensure that once it was pro rata-ed their support staff didn't lose out.

To be honest, I think we just have to assume that clavi is going to keep popping up on education threads being an over invested GF for whatever reason.

Roomba · 02/08/2018 16:02

I just walked past my son's primary school and there were several teachers' cars parked up in the playground. They, like many other teachers I know (and me when I taught primary) work a lot during school holidays. I remember having a row with my mother because I couldn't visit during a half term due to having so much work to get done. You'd think she'd know better as my dad was a teacher, but apparently this didn't happen in his day and I should tell my boss to stuff it. They'd be the first to moan if their grandchildren weren't getting taught well by exhausted teachers though.

allthatmalarkey · 02/08/2018 16:12

Between about 2000 and 2013 I did feel like this as so many of my teacher friends were still moaning despite actually doing similar weekly hours/pay to other friends who were working at equivalent level or higher, but with just statutory minimum holidays. And rarely getting a cost of living or other pay increase. The holidays are part of the package. When there's the problem there currently is (seen it all before, pre 1997), teachers have a point.

noblegiraffe · 02/08/2018 16:21

You most certainly involved yourself - with comments about me first...

My tenth comment on this thread was saying that you’d been posting about education for years. None of my posts have been about teachers being paid for the holidays, because, like I said, that argument doesn’t interest me and I’ve been mainly skipping/skimming those posts. I’m not going back to read them either.

MaisyPops · 02/08/2018 16:29

There'll be no reasoning with them noble. It's become quite evident that they're just seeking a fight about a sector that doesn't involvement.
This is the only thread they came back to MN to post on.
Give it a few hours or a few days and they'll be back again saying wow guys I'm back but couldn't reply sooner because I'm out enjoying life so much.

MaisyPops · 02/08/2018 16:29

*involve them

pieceofpurplesky · 02/08/2018 18:39

And what degree course would that be Clavinova? A BA in arrogance and patronising attitudes?

Pray tell why I would not make you degree course as you don't know me or my qualifications ....

pieceofpurplesky · 02/08/2018 18:40

Maisy not sure why you are explaining it to me? I know how it works.

MaisyPops · 02/08/2018 18:54

piece
I meant it as 'i agree with you. It's simple'.
Sorry if that didn't come across properly.

pieceofpurplesky · 02/08/2018 19:23

Maisy Smile

QueenoftheSilverDollar12 · 02/08/2018 21:05

@Clavinova my S4 lot wouldn't let you be bored, believe me. And I don't like Frosty Jacks, or Buckfast for that matter either. I think that statement says more about me than you though. You are wrong about payment regarding teachers' holidays, loads of people are telling you that, but you just keep on believing what you think. But you are wrong. Your obsession is very, very, very strange. 🙄

Lizzie48 · 02/08/2018 21:31

I'm also very puzzled by Clavinova's obsession with teachers and their terms and conditions? Are you going to tell us why you're so invested? I'm a parent with 2 DDs in primary school, and have to deal with teachers regularly, but I couldn't imagine getting so worked up about their terms and conditions, as it doesn't impact on my life at all.

RiddleyW · 02/08/2018 21:45

I’ve not really followed the thread but felt compelled to comment that this -

I've attended far more teachers' award ceremonies than you have.

  • may be the single greatest and most hilarious boast I’ve ever read on mumsnet.
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