To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

I totally agree noble and as a head of department we need to take some responsibility. Ofsted are only interested in whether you meet your school or department policy. They do not expect to see a certain style of marking. Unreasonable expectations come down to SLT and middle leaders

Mind you Tom Rogers is a bit of an odd cod. Likes to play the rebel teaching hero.

I taught in UK FOR 20 YEARS and wild horses and 100 grand a year wouldn't put me back to that system. Here in Ireland I have three months off in the summer, on full pay and I don't get the nasty jealous comments I got in the UK. Nor am I working in the holidays, I am having fun and holidays and loving it. The attitude towards teachers in the UK is, in my experience, disgusting. Any wonder there's a crisis and look at any country with better pay, holidays, conditions and how teachers are perceived in the media and by the public, these countries always far out run UK in educational standards and results. Connection? Now excuse me while I pour a mid day beer and go back to my novel.

To be honest I only see shitty comments about teachers on here and the Daily Mail - and I only see the latter because DH feels the need to share. Teachers are not quite as sainted as nurses but people often think my job is harder tha it actually is.

I am working today but on my second job because my teaching salary does not give my the lifestyle that I have

noblegiraffe

I know what my answer to that email would be.

I agree that there’s a massive difference between defending the teaching profession against erroneous and malicious posting, and actually going on the attack.

But as a PP said, a small number of the same posters pop up again and again, harping on about school holidays, perceived work hours, and other endless nit picking and then the moment someone bites back, they jump on it as though it’s the teacher who started it!

Ime people who endlessly dissect teachers terms and conditions and/or the minutiae of school life fall into one or both of the following categories:
A) had a bad school experience themself, so then extrapolate from that, that all schools are dreadful and all teachers the spawn of the devil
B) Don’t work, are bored shitless but say they can’t get a job because of the prohibitive cost of school holiday care. They take out their frustration on teachers because they want to believe teachers have it easy (yet don’t seem overly keen to train as teachers themselves... hmm funny that!)
C) DO work, but get frustrated about the cost of holiday care so like to have a whinge about teachers (as though we set the holidays....)

That should be all not both

Never a truer word said @Momo27 you've well and truly hit the nail on the head here. Well said.

@noblegiraffe those emails are ridiculous

I thought teachers weren’t supposed to do displays as part of the workload agreement?

I wouldn't be teacher for any amount of money or 'holidays'. I work alongside schools, see and talk with teachers within the LA, and the stress that they're under is immense. Of course there's a few who perhaps shouldn't be in that profession, just like ANY profession, but they're rare.

Frankly I think they deserve more than they get, salary wise and support wise.

Is the UK unique in how badly teachers are treated by government etc? And I believe they are treated badly. Do teachers in other countries have better conditions, less stress, more respect etc?

I can't speak for all countries but I currently in Australia and it is a breeze compared with the UK. No book marking, no homework expectations, much more respect and better pay.

The kids seem to do okay. May be proves that teachers can be trusted.

I wouldnt be a teacher. Im not patient and you have to like / relate well to kids. Loke any profession its a real skill. Pay is awful. Most i know work hard in term time. Have to take holidays at busiest times of year.

Im a qualified professional and I work very hard in a job thats demanded my all at times. Its not got the same level of socialusefulness as teaching. But i get decent pay and i get good normal holidays and PT working.

I think you only get peoplr being nasty and bitter about teachers on mumsnet. I dont thinj badly of teachers. Maybe teachers acting like its the worst job ever irritates a bit but you only see that on mumsnet.

I feel much worse for nurses/ HCPs and retail workers. TA is not a great job either but my TA friends love it and have good lives. Each to their own.

Is the UK unique in how badly teachers are treated by government etc? And I believe they are treated badly. Do teachers in other countries have better conditions, less stress, more respect etc?
I think the US has some pretty poor conditions and experiences in places as it's a state by state issue.

Well, I'm not intimidated easily - the only reason I didn't reply yesterday was because I was out all day/evening with the dc, enjoying myself. Out again today and tomorrow as it happens...so won't be replying later.

Momo27
erroneous and malicious posting
How is a link to the Association of Teachers and Lecturers (Trade Union) regarding paid holidays for teachers working in private schools erroneous and malicious? None of you have posted a link to anything.

www.atl.org.uk/advice-and-resources/rights-and-conditions/teachers-employment-rights-summary-independent-sector

It is standard practice for teachers to be entitled to take all school holidays as paid annual leave, although your employer may reserve the right to require you to attend for one or two days in the holiday

The most intelligent reply MaisyPops could think of was Meh

QueenoftheSilverDollar12

Posting this:
I've just had a look at @Clavinova's previous postings and I see what you mean @MaisyPops. Another person who thinks they know more about education than those actually involved in the sector

followed by this;
what's 'burgundy book?

makes you look foolish, not me; every school teacher in England must know what the Burgundy Book is.

CuriousaboutSamphire
Sadly I was in FE, A levels and BTECS

Teachers in FE don't have the same pay and conditions as school teachers - were you not aware of this? School teachers were awarded a pay increase this week - "teachers" in FE got nothing - their Trade Union hasn't even negotiated a pay rise for next year yet. About 40% of "teachers" in FE don't have a degree - many are "instructors". Lots of term time only contracts in FE.

Momo27
You forgot category D -

Married - comfortably off so doesn't need to work. Enjoyed her school days - used to work with contracts and employment law pre- dc (dc 1 is nearly 16, so a while ago) - likes to keep her brain ticking over.

AND

Completely fed up of reading threads where groups of teachers act like packs of baying wolves - bullying, swearing, belittling and intimidating other posters, especially when some of these "teachers" write complete tosh in the same thread. (And yes, I did notice that the op in this thread had to ask for her answer to the easy maths question last weekend to be deleted by MNHQ.)

Be careful you don't discredit the whole profession.

makesyoulook foolish, not me; every school teacher in England must know what the Burgundy Book is.
That poster is in Scotland... you know, something that was evdient in their full post:
what's 'burgundy book'? I'm a teacher in Scotland and we don't have this!
But full marks for selective quoting.

Clavinova You are an exceptionally goady poster and claim bullying when challenged.

I know someone who retired early from a senior and very responsible job in banking, and went back to teaching which she had trained for in her twenties.

She ran out of it after a few months and is now back in her previous area as a consultant. I have no idea why people in the UK consider teaching to be a cushy number with short hours and long holidays. What we see being done in the classroom is only about 50% of their work. A teacher once told me that 6 hours in a classroom actually involves 12 hours of work.

Even here in Ireland, where teaching isn't nearly as onerous as it is in the UK and Summer holidays are longer, I still don't think teaching is a cushy job.

Thanks for that @MaisyPops 😂 I'm in Scotland @Clavinova.....look at what I said in my post......how did you not spot that?? Dearie, dearie, dearie me.......

You sound very bored and resentful clavinola.

Remember: being happily married and not needing to work financially aren’t mutually exclusive with having a rewarding career

user
It's a great job and if you can get into a school that values staff and cares about workload then it is possible to have reasonable balance. My school are excellent. If I'd stayed a previous school then I was close to returning to my pre teaching career.

Sadly, as with some other public sector jobs, there's always a few people who are quite goady and like to have a pop for whatever reason they have. It's the same when people talk about teachers not understanding the 'real world' when many of us have actually career changed into teaching.

Just to put my 2 pence in. I am a teacher and I love the holidays and spending time with my kids this year it’s been rubbish as my DH has had no time off in the 7 weeks we have/are off for. We can’t now have 2 weeks in the sun together until April next year as my holidays are always fixed. Assuming he can get time off then

momo
Put it this way if i didn't have to work I could think of lots of things I could do without developing an odd fixation about a different job's Ts and Cs on a forum.

@Clavinova please come and join me in my classroom after the summer break. You sound bored out of your tits and obviously need a more concrete outlet than goading people on the internet about your obsession with teachers' terms and conditions. As a matter of interest, do you have ASD?

Only time for one reply -

Yes, of course I noticed that QueenoftheSilverDollar12 is a teacher in Scotland - none of you understand the 'irony' of her posts though; she knows nothing about teachers' pay and conditions in England herself.

@Clavinova they are broadly similar to those in Scotland, hence I am eminently more qualified to comment than you, my dear. Can you enlighten us as to why you are so obsessed with this?