To think a lot of people are jealous of teachers' holidays but...

[Pengggwn]

...too bitter about it to admit that they wouldn't be teachers themselves?

Just that really.

I have seen so many comments and threads aimed at dissecting teachers' pay and conditions to a forensic level, people complaining that teachers are available over the summer to answer their queries, people arguing that teachers should be working anyway or claim to be working even when they're not (I'm not, at least not for the next month).

And yet, we are in the middle of a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. We can't recruit and keep well-qualified teachers.

Where are all the volunteers??

@CuriousaboutSamphire if YOU had read all of the posts you would have seen that I’ve commented on this quite a few times from page 3 I think, so yes I have read most of the posts!!

and yet, so little has sunk in.
I would suggest that MrVolvo joins a union and works to ensure reasonable working conditions for all.

I never get this rush to the bottom when people discuss pay and conditions.

Trade unions fought for maternity pay, holiday rights, sick pay etc. Public sector workers seemingly can't say anything without having to preface it with 'and i know that other people have it worse' when someone comes in telling them that they shouldn't say anything lest they offend someone's sensibilities.

And now the culture seems to be 'well my aunty's cousins mate knows someone who works 29 hour shifts but is only paid for 2. They are on minimum wage for the 2 hours they are contracted, have no sick pay and have to time their toiler breaks using biometric logon portals. They do all that so they can live in a box. You should all be ashamed for trying to fight dor your terms and conditions'.

Personally, I'd like to see all workers on decent pay and conditions but that won't happen as long as people bitch about those of us that discuss and fight for ours.

@Misstreasiggi yes that no matter how much people sympathise and say but yes it sounds crap but you’re not the only ones you will still carry on banging the drum and isisting but ah yes it’s the crappest for us though, can you not see that’s what gets people’s backs up! I have full sympathy, works hard, but most people in other professions just suck it up and get on witn or have a collective winge! You get insulted when people propose to know more about the profession than you do but you do exactly the same to others - you’ll have someone saying well I only get paid X for doing x hours of wk and x amount of overtime, then someone will say well actually that’s about average in my profession. Then a teacher will say ah but it’s worse for me obviously?!? It’s that attitude that gets peoples backs up and that’s why you get the responses you do!!

BlondeVolvo

Interestingly no teacher has said that they have it worse tan many other professions., Yet you and others repeatedly state that we do.

Defending yourself and the profession against a barrage of misinformation is very different from saying I have it worse than anyone else.

isisting [sic] but ah yes it’s the crappest for us though, can you not see that’s what gets people’s backs up! But the only people who type It is crappest for teachers is posters who want to have a pop at teachers... no teacher ever types it, unless, like this, in rebuttal!

There are a fair few of them all through this thread...

Never have I ever said my job is worse than anyone else’s. If someone comes along and has a pop at how easy they think it is then I will certainly correct that.

I support human rights and workers’ rights and really do want everyone to be able to do a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay.

@BlondeVolvo no teacher on this thread has said anything like you've alleged here. So fuck right off with your anti teacher attitude, it's very disrespectful to folk who probably provide your kids with a quality education as well as free childcare when you're at work. This type of shit boils my piss. I don't come to your work and tell you how to sweep up, do I? (Billy Connolly line I've been dying to use for yonks - you deserve it!)

@BlondeVolvo your reading skills are coming on but your really need to work on your comprehension and decoding, as these continue to be challenging for you.

Oh my word this highlights my point exactly, no one can say anything to you because you’re all so defensive and actually quite aggressive (not sure I’d want a few of you providing my childcare ‘free’ or not if I’m honest), you have such tunnel vision and fail to see things from anyone else’s perspective. I haven’t criticised anyone or told anyone how to do their jobs at all??? I’ve said it sounds pretty crap and I do sympathise. What I have tried to do is make you see how your attitude looks to others outside the profession. I don’t think people want to have a pop at teachers and the job they do well not anyone I know and not most people on this thread. However what comes across is people being exasperated by this ‘we’re the most badly done to attitude’. That may not have been how you meant portray yourselves or what you actually think and I’m talking collectively here not a single poster per say, but it is how it looks to other people, and your defensive and agressive attitudes only serve to make it worse. I mean there was even a post from a teacher saying she really didn’t think it was that bad from her perspective and enjoyed her job and she even got shot down!

Just another one for the GF list.

@BlondeVolvo but the thing is pet, we aren't saying that. That's why we get annoyed. Lots of people have told you that too. Tell you what, go back through the posts and let us know where any teachers have said what you are alleging eh? There's a dear. Instead of chucking out insults and aggression on a subject you quite frankly know fuck all about. I wouldn't dream of commenting on anybody else's job as I've always been a teacher and wouldn't have the first clue about another profession. There's a wee bit of advice for you for today.

Yes @BoneyBackJefferson some folk must have nothing more productive to do with their lives (or brains for that matter) sad really. I should learn to ignore them but I get the rage when they can me out with shit like that.

Defending yourself and the profession against a barrage of misinformation is very different from saying I have it worse than anyone else.
I know this.
You know this.
Most sensible people know this.

Sadly, I think Volvo wants to prod, prod, prod and then when people get remotely snappy back they can go 'see! I told you they're a bunch of meanies who hate their job and think they have it worse than anyone else. See. See. See.'

volvo
I love my job. I love working with the children. I love their bizarre takes on the world. I love seeing them achieve. I lovve my school because I have a great leadership team who value their staff and don't take crap.
I'm not a fan of lots of the pointless paperwork. I'm not a fan of having students reduced to data as we try to hit ridiculous targets. I'm not a fan of the minority of parents who are confrontational, aggressive and unreasonable, but the vast majority are amazing, cooperative, constructive when they need to raise concerns or complain.
I think the way the government is funding teacher salaries and training bursaries is wrong because they are not valuing long term staff and not solving the RETENTION crisis. A large number don't last long in teaching. That's not good for students. Most departments I've been in to do school support with have been all less than 5 years service, some heads of departments have 3 years under their belt and no pre teaching career. That's the reality. Schools need a mix of experienced and new staff to thrive. Pay and conditions long term is part of that.

If you think that's an unreasonable view to hold and that discussing it is somehow a mortal sin on anyone who might earn less then there's no sensible discussion to be had with you.

Oh my word this highlights my point exactly, no one can say anything to you because you’re all so defensive and actually quite aggressive What are you reading? You are being denigrated, yes. But nobody has threatened you in any way!

You are being told that you are misrepresenting a bunch of people you are maligning. You are using false assertions as the basis of your comments... and somehow you think that challenging that is tunnel vision, crap, defensive and aggressive behaviour. How odd!

You also say you haven't criticised, a whole line of type underneath the comment not sure I’d want a few of you providing my childcare ‘free’ or not if I’m honest doubtless I have just been aggressive again!

You see, it isn't just one poster, per se I'm talking collectively. All the posters who use that lie, repeat it and it becomes truth tactic are insidious, nasty and, presumably, they know they are doing it so must have an axe to grind!

That's how they come across, that's how they portray themselves, whether they mean it or not! The repetition and refusal to acknowledge it only serves to make it worse.

But how can Teacher cut their workload? You have a certain number of lessons to plan, that to mark and then assess. What can be cut out?

I work long hours at the moment because we have been planning new key stage 3, 4 and 5 at the same time. I often work from either 8am until midnight - taking a few hours off to do home stuff. Or I get up early so I can start work at 5am. However I am a head of department who is implementing a lot of change at once. When that dies down I expect to do 8 until 6 at school and another 2 hours at home with a few hours on Sunday. So about 65 hours a week.

I do think that teachers can cut their hours by being less perfectionist. So using ready made resources, sharing planning with other schools, using IT to mark homework, using peer assessment more effectively. I am working hard at the moment planning lessons collaboratively with other schools, once that planning is done I won't need to do that much planning- unless I want to.

I also don't think that teachers need to be on peak performance mode for every lesson. Every day I have a textbook lesson or a lesson they can just crack on with whilst I drink a brew and get some admin done

@Tw1nsetAndPearls when I started my teaching career many moons ago, my then HoD (sadly now deceased) told me that I was perfectly sufficient to give kids a first class performance 2 out of three lesson and do exactly as you say for the other one or two lessons they're with you. Makes sense eh?

I think teachers have a hard job and definitely deserve the holidays!

I do think that teachers can cut their hours by being less perfectionist.

Yep. And not beating themselves up for 'merely' adequate sessions.

Sadly I was in FE, A levels and BTECS. You barely get 2 years into a syllabus before they change big bits of it, and you only get about 2 weeks notice, as happened wth many of the GCSE changes last time round. Is it the same in schools? DSis is in primary, so I know how hard she is working at the moment (similar position to yours).

But that sensible approach often doesn't work with an SLT that drives for perfection and does 'walk throughs' aka sneaky, observations. Supposedly nice supportive things that just lead to more stick beating. I left when I was told I had to do walk throughs bi-weekly, as well as teach 0.6 as well as lead the dept. I couldn't keep up (500+ students to monitor - maths and English GCSE and functional skills).

I left loudly, quite suddenly and they actively avoided an exit interview! The next year they tripled contact time and the new HoD was non teaching! You can guess what happened to the results and you can guess whose name was mud

Tw1nset depends on the subject. I can't do that - my subject is too practical and text books/text book work doesn't particularly exist.

But then I love my job and sometimes it doesn't even feel like work.

I'm enjoying my holiday though as i get to spend time with my own kids, rather than other people's kids

As a head of department who has had an SLT role I look for good enough and always worry when I see perfection and martyrdom

Fairpoint Evil. I am too lazy and contentedly average to teach a subject that requires me to be on performance mode. I would have thought that my type or subject is representative of most though.

Did you see this tweet going around about the maths HOD who spent the end of term slating teachers’ displays and saying they wouldn’t be allowed to leave on time if not up to scratch?

twitter.com/rogershistory/status/1022424994909970432?s=21

HOD and SLT should be working to drive down workload for inexperienced teachers, not this sort of crap.