To think it's too young to be left for hours?

[WhoWants2Know]

I have 2 DDs, 8 and 10. They are with their dad this weekend so I can work. 10 messaged me this morning to say that she and her dad had gone out shopping yesterday, leaving 8 at home to look after the dogs. (A pair of 7 month old, medium sized, Romanian rescue dogs)

I have told him previously that 8 is too young to leave alone, and am only just starting to leave 10 at home for short trips. As far as he's concerned, I should do away with the childminder over the summer and the girls can stay home and look after the dogs. He is determined that I am just overprotective.

This isn't about dog hating. I help out with the dogs when I can so that the girls can grow up with pets. BUT they are high energy and can easily jump all over and scratch up an adult, let alone a child. They can also snarl a bit over favourite toys.

I get that exh grew up in a generation where kids were largely left to it, and his upbringing was more neglectful than most. (Actually removed from the home by SS at one point)

So AIBU to say it's too young and how do I get him to stop doing it?

He's actually breaking the law 😤

His dogs need looking after but his 8 year old doesn’t? Seriously?! No! If this was me my children would not being seeing their father unless he came to visit them at mine. Which probably sounds extreme but it’s also emotionally not fair on the children to expect one of them to be allowed to go out to eat and shop and the other to stay home and watch the dogs. Not to mention that rescue dogs might be angels or might be demons, you just don’t know and guidelines about rescue dogs say you should never leave your child alone in a room with a rescue dog. And this is from someone who has a lovely rescue dog who has been a big old softie ever since we had him but unfortunately being put down next week :( due to old age and cancer. He is lovely but I’ve never once left him alone with the kids or had them walk him alone because you just don’t know.

DS is nearly 10 and he has only just started being allowed out to play with some of the neighbours kids for short periods of time. He has also been back left indoors alone once while I went around the corner to get something from the car.

Yes perhaps an 8 or 10 year old could be left unsupervised home or elsewhere...for more like 15 minutes. Not for hours.

I thought that getting SS involved would affect his job? Not saying you shouldn’t get them involved, but it seems a bit of a jump from saying he can have them when you know he’s got form for leaving the girls unattended and form for not taking notice of your wishes to go straight to SS. If it were me, I’d stop looking after the dogs and stop the girls going around. If he asks why, tell him exactly why calmly.

I spoke to him about it and told him that neither child is to be left with the dogs again, and 8 isn't to be left home alone or children's services will be knocking on his door. I pointed out the consequences for his job if that happens, so I hope he gets the picture.

If they are going to be at his house, each child now has her own phone with them and charged, with my numbers as well as our two nearest friends and childminder.

I explained to the girls that it's "against the rules" for them to be at home without a grownup, so if he leaves either or both of them alone then they are to ring me and I or someone else will come get them and ring children's services.

Gosh...I felt bad earlier, my 9 year old wouldn’t come in the car, my older 2 walk the half mile home usually but it’s silly hot so I wanted to collect them from the bus. My youngest said, go without me you won’t be long. I was about 4 mins. I felt bad doing that. I like to imagine the worst case scenario, like crashing the car on the way home.
But I definitely wouldn’t leave a child with 2 young dogs. We have 2 dopey labradors but I’ve always kept them away from visitors with young children. Even the calmest of dogs could be unpredictable when provoked.

What an ass. He wants his DDs to not have a childminder over the summer so they can look after his dogs. Lovely parenting...I usually book my kids into fun activities and wouldn't think to leave them at home at that age to simply sit around doing nothing never mind dog sit two young rescue pups. Your doing the right thing OP by putting your foot down

Don't let him read this thread. It will have no positive consequences.

I come from a different generation, but I have to say...depends on the 8 year old, and it depends how long for...and it depends if there are neighbours who I can inform.

Even with nice neighbours, no dogs and an ultra responsible 8 year old no way I would I do this. I first left DD1 on her own around age 10/11 for VERY short periods. I am sure she could have been left sooner (she is very sensible) but even back in the '90s (when this was) I was conscious that if anything did go wrong - any kind of accident etc - it would be a social services matter because of the child's age. So better all round not to take the risk.
I really feel for you having to deal with exh who clearly just does not get what he is doing wrong.
(as an aside when I was 8 I clearly remember babysitting my mum's friend's youngest - who was about 18 months - and finding it a total nightmare! The mums had gone out to a coffee morning; they were probably only a couple of doors down but it put me off babysitting for life!)

Don't tell the DC that you will phone social services on their dad! They very well might not want to get him into trouble (or risk being taken into care), so might not call you if they are indeed left alone again

You should show him this from the RSPCA - it's their very first "Golden Rule" that children should not be left alone with dogs

Awful. Far too many things can go wrong. Somebody knocks on the door, the dogs and jumping about barking. Stranger comments on the dogs. The 8 year old is not safe.

Crazy! I am fairly chill but that is too risky. For all the reasons detailed above. He is being unreasonable...your instincts are correct.

I’d love to know which ‘rescue’ allowed him to have litternates when anyone who knows anything about dogs knows it’s a bad idea

THIS ^

Littermates almost always have a lifelong fight for supremacy, even if they are neutered, and often if they are of opposite sexes. And that's even when they have had the best of starts in life - which your poor dogs haven't.

However, even without the dogs in the mix 8 IS TOO YOUNG TO LEAVE A CHILD ALONE

What if there's a fire? Or a serious dog fight? Or one of the dogs chews a wire and electrocutes itself - and your child?

These scenarios are unlikely, but possible. And even if nothing goes wrong, having too much responsibility at a very young age makes for an anxious child - I'm speaking from personal experience, here.

Crikey. What an idiot. I hope your girls will tell you if this happens again. Or better still call someone to be rescued. Two dogs together become a small pack and that’s even more dangerous to young kids - and there’s the added complexity that they’re litter mates.

Your poor 8 yo. How awful to order her to stay st home. Wasn’t she scared? My dd is 10. I’ve occasionally left her alone for the past year just to take the dog for a very short walk. No way would I leave the dog with her alone. I don’t think he would hurt her deliberately as he’s not nasty just very feisty. She’s just too young to cope with him yet.

I definitely think you have the right idea threatening social services.

I grew up in a 'left to our own devices' house, too, so I can see why he's thinking the way he is, but I don't think it's ok. I also think it's interesting that my upbringing makes me constantly doubt my decisions and I spend a lot time checking whether things are appropriate, whereas it sounds like your DH seems pretty confident with his decisions.

I think I left my DD alone for very short periods (shop round the corner) when she was about 9, but I would never have left her 'responsible' for anything - like dogs. And I live in an exceptionally safe, rural area.

I don't think he should be doing this and it isn't fair that he's making you worry.

8 is too young but it is the dogs that are really scaring me here.
She shouldn’t be alone with any dog really but two new Romanian rescues?! You don’t know what they are capable of, what they’ve been through in the past etc. If they turn on her and there’s no adult around to help, it’s unthinkable

Riceuten ,it depends on NOTHING ! it is a chargeable offence to leave a child of 8yrs alone ! It's called child neglect

I agree..it depends on nothing. But the fact that this is incomprehensibly wrong.

12 is the recommended age before they can be left alone. Obviously depends on the child as some 12 year olds are a total nightmare re safety/ commonsense. Sorry being. Bit sexist but girls do tend to be a bit more sensible than boys.

Way too young. I haven't left my 10year old (almost 11) yet. And I for sure wouldn't leave an 8 year old with two dogs.

Good grief, two rescue dogs left with an 8 year old If those dogs are not secured when ex goes out then he should be caged. Definitely would not be happy with what you describe.

Christ this is a disaster brewing. NSPCC srates that rarely a child under the age of 12 should be left alone for longer periods of time. Leaving a child with 2 rescue dogs? Is he bonkers? I have got 2 dogs and trust them 99% of the time. There is always a chance that a dog can snap for any reason hence the 1%.... your ex needs his head checked. He clearly shouldn't be looking after the kids as he has no consideration for their safety. Send him a text and get him to respond to you so you have it in writing and go from there. Please don't let something happen to your child because the other parent is irresponsible

Just to clarify, I didn't tell the girls that I would call social services on him. I just told them that one of their friends would come pick them up. But the mums in question know the situation and have been briefed on what to do

i would just like to stick up for my doggy here.
TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID THOUGH.
but my girl my best friend dog and I could happily have been left alone at that age.maybe because mum wouldn't have it wouldn't have been a problem but she was more human to me than my sibling so it was always me and her,often alone with the other elsewhere in the house.

I had an incident a couple of months ago where I had to leave my nearly 10 year old at home on his own (sent home from school ill- he was fine- had a cough and was tired but that’s fine- I’d rather he be sent home than suffer at school) but I had important work meetings and no one to look after him so set him up on sofa with remote and a drink and went back to work for a couple of hours.
In the meantime someone from the council (not that this chap introduced himself) knocked on the door to take pictures of the house for our planing permission. DS invited him in the house to go to the back garden and take pictures. Man knew DS was home alone as first question was “are your parents home?”. My digging discovered who said man was - DS said he wasn’t a bad man, because he wasn’t wearing black!! my thoughts were WTF!
I was horrified at this, tried to contact man to ask why he entered a house with a 9 year old when he knew parents weren’t there... also spoke to DS and said never to answer door when no one else home however point of post... mentioned it to two friends- one a school nurse and the other was in the police as DSI for child protection- and both said I was in the wrong- it’s illegal to leave a child at home alone under the age of 11.
Who actually knew?? It shut me up when they said that SS could get involved.

Sorry for the long post.