To be utterly depressed at this article and comments it generated in the Daily Mail

[Dulra]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5972845/Irish-PM-mocked-saying-ban-British-planes-airspace.html

I apologise in advance because I am linking a daily mail article and I know a lot of mumsnetters hate the daily mail and all it represents but this article and its hateful comments has really upset me. The article is referring to comments made yesterday by the Irish Taoiseach in relation to Brexit. He said “You cannot have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to use other people’s sky”. It was an ill-advised comment and he shouldn’t have said it. But it is no secret that the Irish government are getting increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress on Brexit and the lack of a clear plan from the British government to negotiate with. His comment was in response to comments made in Britain that Irish fishermen could be banned from fishing in UK waters next to the Irish coast. The Daily Mail reported on it yesterday and continue to do today. What they said he said was that leo Varadkar had threatened to ban British flights over Irish airspace. Read quote above that is not what he said!
You can imagine the comments this generated mainly slagging off the Irish loads of potato famine references, leprechaun references, stupid irish, stupid Taoiseach, he’s not even Irish, where would Ireland be without Britain, the south should just join with the north and become a part of Britain again, Ireland is the begger state of the EU, Ireland would be better represented by a potato. I could go on and on and on.
I am just so sad that people think this and think it is ok to say these things. Fine Britain want to leave the EU but why the sudden hate against the Irish. Why is every other country that disagrees with brexit and is fed up with it suddenly a target for this hate. What hope has the Good Friday agreement got in this climate?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5972845/Irish-PM-mocked-saying-ban-British-planes-airspace.html

We wish the Irish no harm but, put bluntly, us Brexiteers don't intend to let concerns about Ireland, especially fictional ones about the border, affect our leaving the EU. If they try to come between us and a full, clear and clean Brexit there will only be one winner."

Right here ^ the reason that sensible Brits and people the world over are laughing at and despairing of the brexiteers who drove this.

They shouldn’t have been allowed to vote without an IQ test 😂😂😂

@Murpher I spoke with myself, Irish, educated there, masters in psychology other discipline from Irish university etc. Certainly NOT stupid.

I am in the Republic of Ireland, not part of the UK.
An equal constituent state of the EU.

I have never referred to, nor heard the island referred to as the mainland, other than by British people. Some of those British people live in Northern Ireland, a constituent country of the United Kingdom.

Perhaps that is where you have heard it?

From the Irish Times (a paper of record)

The Irish Aviation Authority...
"Asked to clarify whether this would mean another agreement would be needed for UK flights to land in the Republic and other EU states, the spokesman said: “Regarding EU/UK flights, yes, another agreement or the reinstatement of old bi-lateral agreements would need to be in place if a hard Brexit occurs, to provide for connectivity between Europe and the UK.” (my emphasis)

So, the facts are that, in the event of a hard Brexit (i.e. without an agreement), flights from the UK to all other parts of the EU will be at risk.

Leo Varadker was merely the messenger.

@WhollyFather

What Varaker actually said...
"If they want their planes to fly over our skies, they would need to take that into account. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to take back other people’s sky."

Probably not his finest moment, to have lashed out in that way.
However, there is a kernel of truth in what he says.
WHat's more is that Philip Hammond said the same thing some months ago. ( you know, your Chancellor of the Exchequer).

Britain wants to withdraw from the EU....absolutely fine, that's democracy. Absolutely within your rights to do so.
If you wish to withdraw from agreements about territorial waters, fine. Lets renegotiate.
But what is not OK is to pick and choose.
You can't have your cake and eat it....a lesson taught to children all over the world every day.

Quote Varadker some more "The situation at the moment is that the United Kingdom is part of the Single European Sky, and if they leave the EU they are not. And that does mean that if there was a no-deal ‘hard Brexit’ next March, the planes would not fly, and Britain would be an island – in many ways – and that is something that they need to think about".

No threat issues, just a statement of fact.

You are correct Varadker does not have the power to stop planes flying over Ireland..nor has he tried to assume it.
The international aviation authorities do however have that power.

You went on to say "As for Ireland getting '...increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress on Brexit...', perhaps he ought to take that up with the real villains of the piece, the vindictive and intransigent EU."

Oh please.

"We wish the Irish no harm but, put bluntly, us Brexiteers don't intend to let concerns about Ireland, especially fictional ones about the border, affect our leaving the EU. If they try to come between us and a full, clear and clean Brexit there will only be one winner."

The mere fact that you think in terms of winner/loser tells me a lot about the mindset.
(Again) If Britian wishes to leave the EU, that's absolutely fine.
I would not wish to be in a marriage with someone who wants out.

But, a good negotiator knows that the best outcome is for win/win- where everyone has some discomfort, but nobody loses.

The Guardian
Philip Hammond has stressed the urgency of securing an implementation deal between Britain and the EU by the end of this month, warning that without it airlines will not know if they can safely schedule flights for spring 2019.

WhollyFather clearly went to the same diplomacy course as Trump. Nobody will 'win' this one, there are people's livelihoods at stake on both sides of the border, and possibly actual lives if this is not handled properly. Ireland did not ask for this - not the Republic and not Northern Ireland - your 'mainland' did. (Sorry Murpher NO Irish person would use this expression unless they are the type that considers July 12th a 'glorious' day)

I don't think Varadkar was out of line either.

Oh Katiepoes - I was wondering when it’d come down to the old orange and green argument, and you didn’t disappoint. You couldn’t be more wrong. My ex is from NI but considers himself Irish - that might give you a clue. I meant no harm in what I said, I apologised for any offence and still, still, you keep digging, baiting, goading. This is a forum meant for open debate and discussion, not blaming, shaming and finger pointing.

Murpher posters are simply pointing out to you that Irish people do not refer to Britain as the main land. I have never heard any Irish person of any persuasion refer to Britain as the mainland.

Nellyphants - I’ve heard people saying it. I’m not making it up.

Ok then, you’re very unusual so.

Unionists from NI refer to UK as the mainland.

Those from the republic don't (unless they're ancient, old school, goady fucker West Brits - a few of those exist but not many).

Where I grew up, any mention of Britain as “the mainland” would (at the very least) earn you the unpopular label of “a west Brit”.

I’m on board with referring to Europe as “mainland Europe”. Because that’s what it is. The mainland to our islands.

I think there’s an argument to be made that calling our islands the “British isles” is a bit imperialist too. I’d favour something like “the European archipelago”, chiefly because it would wind up the brexiters but also because it’s neutral (and an accurate description).

Airstrip One would be fine too

This is revolting and really only serves to highlight the deep divisions within your own country. Perhaps you should focus on that.

This is revolting

What is?

and really only serves to highlight the deep divisions within your own country. Perhaps you should focus on that.

I think you might find the brits played a substantial role in creating those divisions. Read some Irish history and then come back to this debate.

Thank you Murpher, I will focus on your opinion that this is revolting. Your input is very welcome & constructive. Perhaps your husband with the masters in psychology can help us?

As a primary school child I was taught that the islands off Europe were an archipelago with Great Britain linked via Doggerland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggerland#/media/File:Doggerland3er_en.png

Ergo the Mainland always referred to Britain, simply also by dent that it was closer to Europe than the Island of Ireland. I was taught in a Catholic school in Northern Ireland.

A few decades later I was party to the wonderful achievement that is the Channel Tunnel. A fantastic piece of engineering that finally reunited Great Britain with Europe.

Another marvel of engineering is The Oresund Bridge between Sweden and Denmark.

Part tunnel and part bridge.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge#/media/File:%C3%98resund_Bridge_from_the_air_in_September_2015.jpg

I never said anyone was not Irish. I suggested they may come from a very clear side of a divide Brexit is about to stir up again.

Leo Varadkar often speaks before putting his brain in gear, it's not his first time. The people who voted leave did not make an informed choice, no mention was ever made of Thur Irish border or many other things, only talk was of immigration and more money for the n h s. This is the fault of the politicians they did not run a campaign and left it all to Nigel Faragee. If there was a referendum now I suspect it would be a majority of remain

Katie

Just to fix this in your head. Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to stay within the EU.

I realise the tone of this thread has gotten rather angry (and I have played a part in that, unfortunately).

Just wanted to say that I’ve now learned the hilarious name of Doggerland for the first time (snigger) and have been reading up on it. Fascinating. Thanks!

If you liked Doggerland, then I hope you will like this video on the Channel Tunnel. Enjoy!

The Brexiter press in the UK despise statements of fact.

Leo Varadkar should considered this before he made one.

The Taoiseach didn't actually say what he is reported as saying. He was calmly (as always) pointing out that what would happen in aviation if the UK where to leave without a deal.

The level of abuse he has taken personally (some of it racist and homophobic) from the unionists propping up Theresa May's government and Brexiteers, some of them MPs and members of the House of Lords has been nothing short of disgusting.

And the interesting thing is these are the same people who would call Ireland "backward" but Ireland has no issue with Vardakar's heritage or sexuality.

I don't know what it is about Brexiteers who don't understand that he is defending Irish interests and owes them no favours?