To be utterly depressed at this article and comments it generated in the Daily Mail

[Dulra]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5972845/Irish-PM-mocked-saying-ban-British-planes-airspace.html

I apologise in advance because I am linking a daily mail article and I know a lot of mumsnetters hate the daily mail and all it represents but this article and its hateful comments has really upset me. The article is referring to comments made yesterday by the Irish Taoiseach in relation to Brexit. He said “You cannot have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to use other people’s sky”. It was an ill-advised comment and he shouldn’t have said it. But it is no secret that the Irish government are getting increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress on Brexit and the lack of a clear plan from the British government to negotiate with. His comment was in response to comments made in Britain that Irish fishermen could be banned from fishing in UK waters next to the Irish coast. The Daily Mail reported on it yesterday and continue to do today. What they said he said was that leo Varadkar had threatened to ban British flights over Irish airspace. Read quote above that is not what he said!
You can imagine the comments this generated mainly slagging off the Irish loads of potato famine references, leprechaun references, stupid irish, stupid Taoiseach, he’s not even Irish, where would Ireland be without Britain, the south should just join with the north and become a part of Britain again, Ireland is the begger state of the EU, Ireland would be better represented by a potato. I could go on and on and on.
I am just so sad that people think this and think it is ok to say these things. Fine Britain want to leave the EU but why the sudden hate against the Irish. Why is every other country that disagrees with brexit and is fed up with it suddenly a target for this hate. What hope has the Good Friday agreement got in this climate?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5972845/Irish-PM-mocked-saying-ban-British-planes-airspace.html

I won’t even click on the link. A racist reactionary article doesn’t deserve more attention. And comments are from god knows what hateful people.

Although I also have to say I live in Ireland and I’m also a bit sick of the anti British feelings. People talk about Britain here as if we are a homogeneous lump of English Colonials. Much of Britain is mixed including Irish heritage (me included), let’s be mature for once!

I think both our nations need to grow up about each other.

We on the mainland?

Nice to see my post proven right.

BaronessBlonde, what a brilliant analogy. It's the best I've seen.

Endofsummer it's anti-English not anti-British. But yes sometimes it can be vicious - but then you see these Mail type articles and you see why. Referring to the 'mainland' does not help.

Since when was Varadkar not Irish btw?

Varadkar has Indian (I think) ancestry. To the eyes of a certain type of person that means he’s not Irish. Oddly the same class of person who thinks that is also pro-Brexit and anti-irish. Purely by conincidence.

Re: The Mainland.

I’m actually Scottish and none of the things your implying about me or my opinions are true. I’m on Ireland’s side on this one but as usual on this forum, here’s the unnecessary victimisation of one poster. You know what I mean by that terminology, it was in no way meant to be inflammatory or derogatory. I apologise if it was. It’s a term that’s been used by Irish people I know and it seems I’ve learned something new today myself.

I did not imply anything about you Murpher. Referring to the island of Britain as the mainland in a discussion about Ireland is at best misguided and typical of an attitude just about guaranteed to annoy most Irish people. Even if you know some weirdos that do it themselves.

All that means is that the Irish people you know are thick as shit.

Because you need to be a special blend of stupid to think that "the mainland" being England has anything to do with Ireland, wouldn't you?

@EndofSummer
" I also have to say I live in Ireland and I’m also a bit sick of the anti British feelings. People talk about Britain here as if we are a homogeneous lump of English Colonials. Much of Britain is mixed including Irish heritage (me included), let’s be mature for once!"

Sadly, I have to agree with you, that it does go on here...and I have no part with it (I've lived in a lot of countries and had the Irish-Paddy stereotype thrown at me, so have no truck with Irish people doing it to others).

There is no denying the power differential between small Ireland and larger UK. Generally how do we refer to people who abuse their dominant position....oh yes, bullying.
I won't submit to bullying no matter where it comes from.

Re "the mainland"....
I was headhunted recruited to a position in London many years ago...and I recall the HR person saying that they looked forward to meeting me when I came over to "the mainland".
I genuinely did not know what she was talking about and had to ask her to clarify.

Irish people, especially those of us who are a special blend of stupid, just do not think of the island of Britain in that way.

The mainland is Europe.

@baroness I guess we all have to take a strong line, stand against this DM nonsense. They love to jump on a weakness, and Leo was out of line. Doesn’t give anyone license to be racist though!

Here in Ireland it does also seem to have opened some old wounds re NI. A certain amount of panic and the border issue, which is unresolved in many ways, Brexit is shining a spotlight on the divisions. Within too.

Was he out of line?

I am linking a daily mail article and I know a lot of mumsnetters hate the daily mail

Mumsnetters love the Fail. That's why they link to it so much.

Sorry OP, not clicking on the link.

Why was Leo Varadkar out of line? Pointing out the bleeding obvious, I would have thought.

Your mistake was the click on the Mail. However, as an aside, why are the Welsh exempt from criticism? A higher proportion of them voted for Brexit.

Okaaay. Spoke with exh, Irish, educated there, masters in psychology from Irish university etc. Certainly NOT stupid. He confirmed that yes, lots of Irish people, including himself and members of his family, friends etc, who are also well educated abd can read big words, refer to the island that comprises Scotland, Wales and England as the mainland. That must’ve been where I heard it.

Certainly NOT stupid.

A matter of opinion, at best.

Certainly NOT stupid

According to you, and the man who can apparently read big words but not a history book.

I heard Matthew Parris on C4 news the other day with another brilliant analogy. It was something about pigs flying - people had voted to make pigs fly and were now outraged that they weren't flying. That's a crap summary but you get what I mean - what was promised was impossible.

I hate Brexit but these three things wind me up more and more:

• saying that the EU want to 'punish' us when they have done nothing but be consistent all the way through
• that Ireland has been dragged so far into this mess but apparently is not allowed to have an opinion on the matter
• saying that if we just leave then it's up to the EU to erect a border, completely oblivious to WTO rules let alone the GFA

"Okaaay. Spoke with exh, Irish, educated there, masters in psychology from Irish university etc. Certainly NOT stupid. He confirmed that yes, lots of Irish people, including himself and members of his family, friends etc, who are also well educated abd can read big words, refer to the island that comprises Scotland, Wales and England as the mainland. That must’ve been where I heard it."

What is his family background? Were older generations educated in the UK?

Does he have an accent that is more English than the English themselves?

I haven't read the DM article but I suspect the main point here is that Varadkar simply does not have the power to stop overflights etc. under the terms of treaties dating back to the beginning of the International Air Services Transit Agreement and signed as part of the Chicago Convention in 1944, which guarantee the freedom of the skies. This has been signed by 133 countries, including the UK and all EU member states. Ireland has been a signatory since 1957. It was a daft thing to say and only exposes him to ridicule, which I imagine DM commenters excel at.

As for Ireland getting '...increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress on Brexit...', perhaps he ought to take that up with the real villains of the piece, the vindictive and intransigent EU.

We wish the Irish no harm but, put bluntly, us Brexiteers don't intend to let concerns about Ireland, especially fictional ones about the border, affect our leaving the EU. If they try to come between us and a full, clear and clean Brexit there will only be one winner.

it's surprising to me that English (and I think? Welsh) people are really not aware of how/what they voted for

SOME people in England and SOME people in Wales. And indeed quite a lot in Scotland and Northern Ireland, too.

NOT all of us. And only 3% of those who voted in Gibraltar (who have been completely forgotten in this Fustercluck.

The UK government and the Brexit-voters are responsible for this. Not the people of England or Wales in general - millions of us voted to remain,

In fact when you think about it, far less than 50% of the population of the UK voted to leave when you consider those who weren't allowed to vote eg the EU (and other non-British residents) and those under 18. And yet we're being exposed to this chaos.

@WhollyFather

“don't intend to let concerns about Ireland, especially fictional ones about the border, affect our leaving the EU”

I really think you need to have a wee think about that last paragraph, and maybe inform yourself of the issues.

Want to explain what you mean a bit?

"We wish the Irish no harm but, put bluntly, us Brexiteers don't intend to let concerns about Ireland, especially fictional ones about the border, affect our leaving the EU. If they try to come between us and a full, clear and clean Brexit there will only be one winner."

@WhollyFather what a brilliant demonstration of pathological arrogance and sheer stupidity.

I haven't read the DM article but I suspect the main point here is that Varadkar simply does not have the power to stop overflights etc. under the terms of treaties dating back to the beginning of the International Air Services Transit Agreement and signed as part of the Chicago Convention in 1944, which guarantee the freedom of the skies.

Varadkar was referring to the US-EU Open Skies Agreement, which the UK are in all likelihood leaving as part of Brexit. That's the main point here.

us Brexiteers don't intend to let concerns about Ireland, especially fictional ones about the border, affect our leaving the EU. If they try to come between us and a full, clear and clean Brexit there will only be one winner.

Nice bit of jingoism there, and I especially liked how you dismissed the very real concerns of people who actually live along the border. How do you intend to 'win'?