Wheelchair vs pram on bus

[Thankfuckitsfriday1]

disclaimer
This has never happened but AIBU to ask what you would do in this scenario if it occurred? (Will happen possibly in the next year while son is at pre school)

Ill be taking my son to pre school on the bus and back 3 times a week. There’s only 2 spaces on the bus for buggy’s or 1 buggy and 1 wheelchair and in normal circumstances I’d always always say the buggy gets folded or I would get off.

But my sons autisic and he sits on his buggy board with my daughter in the pram. He won’t get off to sit elsewhere but loves the bus if he’s sat there nicely.

If a wheelchair were to get on and need the space I was in.. AIBU to say no? It would be on the way to my sons special needs pre school and he’s also disabled? Or would it be a wheelchair trumps pram no matter what situation?

Excuse the errors, you get the jist

Okay. I understand that he’s not in a wheelchair!

And I can’t inagine how hard it is to be disabled and put up with this, but as I said he’s disabled too (I KNOW NOT THE SAME).

I wasn’t demanding a space for my perfectly abled son and being entitled.. I was asking a question about my disabled son who really struggles and his rights to not have to get off the bus.

I have had other posters who’ve said they themselves are in wheelchairs and would not expect me too move. However (I’ve said this so many times in all my posts except the first one) in reality unless I was having an awfully difficult day or on the way to his hospital app I would move.

But I am sorry if anything u have said has come accords poorly or as if I am not sympathetic or lacking empathy.

@Thankfuckitsfriday1, ignore the haters, especially those who don't seem to have read or understood your posts.

I think @Imchlibob's suggestion to contact the bus company to get them on board is a great one. I would suggest something along the following lines based on my understanding of the facts.

Dear sir/madam,

I am writing to enquire about the arrangements on your buses concerning disabled passengers, and to request reasonable adjustments to your service for my disabled son.

My son, [name of Thankfuckitsfriday1's son], has autism. Please find enclosed with this letter medical evidence of his diagnosis. Due to his autism, he can find certain situations distressing because they are overwhelming. In particular, when travelling on buses he needs to remain seated on the buggy board attached to the buggy which my daughter also uses. When I have attempted to move him to the bus seats, it has resulted in a meltdown caused by his autism with him on the floor crying, kicking and unable to express or understand why he cannot sit in the one place he feels safe outside the house. I should emphasise that these episodes are a result of his autism, are extreme and are not the same as a tantrum which a neurotypical child may have. [Amend this as needed so that it is accurate. Add any further detail - in particular, if you feel these meltdowns may result in harm to your DS or others it would be helpful to say this]

From September, I will need to take my son to pre-school on the bus and back 3 times a week. As above, he will need to remain seated for these journeys on the buggy board attached to the buggy which my daughter sits in, and I plan to place the buggy in the wheelchair space. Unlike most parents who use the wheelchair space for their children's buggies, I will unfortunately be unable to fold my away my buggy and move my children to the bus seats if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus due to my son's need to remain in the buggy seat. I believe that this is unlikely to cause a problem for the vast majority of journeys because my understanding is that the bus is safely able to accommodate one wheelchair and one buggy simultaneously. However, I am concerned about what may happen if my buggy and another buggy are occupying the wheelchair space and a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus.

Please could you confirm what your company's policy is regarding the use of wheelchair spaces on the buses?

As you may be aware, in FirstGroup plc v Paulley [2017] UKSC 4, the Supreme Court confirmed that there was no requirement for bus companies to have an absolute rule that wheelchair spaces must be vacated if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus. Further, as my son is disabled for the purposes of the Equality Act 2010 you are under a duty to make reasonable adjustments to the service provided to him.

I believe that it would be reasonable for you to allow my buggy to remain in the wheelchair space even if other parents are asked to fold up and move their buggies to allow a wheelchair user to board the bus. As mentioned above, I believe the buses can safely accommodate my buggy together with a wheelchair user so this should not impede the wheelchair user's journey.

Further, if the wheelchair space is fully occupied by non-disabled buggy users, I believe that it would be reasonable for the bus driver to request that one or more of those passengers should fold away their buggies so that my disabled child can use the wheelchair space and remain seated on the buggy board. [You haven't mentioned this but I imagine it's a problem that could arise and you should really get priority in such a situation over non-disabled users]

I would be most grateful if you could confirm whether you are willing to make the above requested reasonable adjustments in accordance with your duty under the Equality Act. It would be extremely helpful if you could provide a brief letter stating the adjustments that you are willing to make which I would be able to show to your bus drivers if necessary.

I would be very happy to explain my son's needs further if you wish to discuss or require any clarification of the information I have provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Thankfuckitsfriday1]

Attached: [eg letter from specialist confirming autism diagnosis]

Allymcbeagle

Wow thank you! That’s incredibly helpful and comprehensive. Thank you so much for taking the time to write that and I’ll be saving it

If you've paid for a service, you should get it so no, don't get off the bus. Since when did we start playing "my disability is worse than your disability"?

It isn't a disability space though. It is a wheelchair ( or equivalent) space. The problem is he is not actually in a wheelchair or equivalent - sitting on a buggy board could seem to be pushing the equivalent bit too far.
I can absolutely see the OP's difficulty. She has another child to consider so can't just put him in an sn buggy but I also understand that someone with a wheelchair or sn buggy may be annoyed if they can't get on because of child sitting on a buggy board.

You're welcome Thankfuckitsfriday1. Do amend it if there's anything not right and feel free to PM me if you need any help with anything.

I admire you for the way you are looking after your son and I hope that the bus company are able to provide you with some reassurance about the use of the wheelchair space.

And as say, I ignore the haters on here who don't understand People on AIBU? can be very mean.

Oops - that should have been "As I say,"

This thread assumes that the person in the wheelchair would be unsympathetic to a mother on her own with a baby and a child with additional needs.

Cross the bridge when you come to it and maybe speak to someone about the pushchair equivalent of a blue badge.

Start preparing now. Explain that there is a rule that wheelchair users get priority so if this happens you have an alternative plan. This may be that he sits next to you with his hood up on the window side of a seat, or that you whip out the ear defenders and sunglasses and let him choose where he sits. Practice the drill until he is easy with it. Establishing the routine is the key. He will need to deal with fire drills etc as he gets older so this is another drill. Good luck.

Jamiefraserskilt

OP has already said that her DS doesn't have the level of understanding for that kind of conversation.

This isn't really the place for this kind of conversation because it's just too complex. There are people in wheelchairs who can actually fold them and walk short distances and are happy to do so, there are children in SN buggies who might have a huge meltdown and create a dangerous situation and not be able to travel if asked to move (even though they could physically walk). Wheelchair always trumps buggy is clearly stupid. That said one would hope in the rare situation where more than two disabled people need to use the disabled space on a bus they could come to a compromise where one waits for the next bus.

PitterPatterOfBigFeet - But her son isn't in a special needs buggy, if he was then she'd have the same priority as the wheelchair user. Fact is, he's sittting on the buggy board of a the buggy, and that isn't something he's going to be able to do forever, is it now?
And what if the wheelchair user can't walk or fold it up, what then? And no, it's not stupid that wheelchair always trumps buggy in the damn WHEELCHAIR SPACE. A special needs buggy is different, because it's the equivalent of a wheelchair and in some places you can get a sticker saying that it's counted as a wheelchair. But that point is irrelevant when the child in question isn't even using a special needs buggy.
As another posted previously said, how do you think a person with a child in a special needs buggy would feel if they couldn't get on the bus because of a child sitting on a buggy board in the wheelchair space?

DetectiveGoren

Fri 20-Jul-18 20:05:39
melonscoffer - Why are you giving out advice in relation to DLA when you clearly know nothing about it

Ummm. Well gee, let me think, I guess it's because i've received DLA with severe disability bonus for oooh let me think 18yrs.
Plus I used London buses daily for many of those years.

Detectivegoren And you'd also know that whether the OP had a blue badge for her son or not is irrelevant

Actually it is most helpful. It will prove that her son has extra needs in terms of travel
Anything helps in these situations, any proof that travel is less easy than for others can help.

The wheelchair user gets priority every time. A buggy being used as a substitute for a WC is different eg a baby on oxygen.

OP have you spoken to your council about transport? You might be entitled to a taxi or some other transport option.

Can you also talk through with him that he may need to get off the bus part way through the journey - I know much easier said than done.

I think OP, your only hope to appease some people will be some kind of official blue badge pass/document from the relevant school/transport/medical authorities. The letter suggested above is excellent. It won't satisfy everyone of course, witness certain posters' intransigence and vitriol, because your child's method of transportation isn't a dedicated and specific enough mobility aid for them but most people will be understanding and accommodating to your child's special circumstances. Good luck with it all.

OP in reality unless I was having an awfully difficult day or on the way to his hospital app I would move

It's unfortunate that it is irrelevant what type of day you are having or where you are going. You can't stay in the wheelchair space. It's not yours to decide.
You are in a difficult situation, as I said earlier, keep your award letter with you to show. A copy of it, make loads of copies and keep in a clear document cover. Those thin ones suitable for one sheet of A4.

However i've been with you all the way on this one and when you get your new buggy life may be easier.

Where will your daughter fit into your arrangements with the new buggy?

Ignore the angry people.
Disability doesn't form a personality. Some people were nasty before disability hit them.
I'm not one of them, i've always been nice

melonscoffer

Not just nice, absolutely lovely I'd say.

Are people really so dim-witted that they think because its called 'wheelchair space' (which it actually isn't all the time it's often called accessibility space) a person with a disability whose needs might be greater don't get to use it. What horrible jobs worths! So someone on a mobility scooter that isn't a wheelchair doesn't get to use it!? There is no legal reason someone with special needs can't take priority over a wheelchair user, it depends on their need for the space which is going to be massively dependent in the individual.

melonscoffer - And yet you didn't know that it's only adults who get PIP, that DLA is still in place for children under the age of 16. Getting DLA doesn't make you an expert on the subject, clearly.

But legally it is a wheelchair space it is not a disability / pram space it is in fact a wheelchair space they can rebrand it what every they want but the LAW says its a wheelchair (or equivalent space).

As by LAW they need to provide at least 1 wheel chair space on every bus made (i am paraphrasing it as i do not have access to the exact wording) but the law is clear.

On our buses, there are clearly marked wheelchair spaces and if someone with a wheelchair gets on, they must be cleared. There are also seats for disabled users.

If you are in a wheelchair space you will be given the choice to move or get off. The rules are clear and AFAIK, no one challenges them because they are so clear.

It's never been legally enforced and we're talking about what would happen in practise amongst normal reasonable people.