To not understand why (and be against) “improved sizing”

[SchrodingersMeowth]

So, I don’t know if this is just in Primark or everywhere will be taking it on but I’m a bit shocked that the sizing for clothes is being re-marked. For example a 10-12 which was previously medium will now be small, 8-10 XS etc.

This feels like an excuse to ignore true sizing and doesn’t seem healthy! Tbh it reminds me of the people who try to push the “Marilyn monroe was a size 16 and perfectly healthy”. But she wasn’t was she, not a size 16 now anyway!!!

I feel like sizing is already generous and changing it to make people appear even smaller when they haven’t changed isn’t good for accountability for the fact that obesity is an ever growing crisis.

I don’t agree that my “new” size reflects my actual size and I’m sure this is going to be the same for many people.

I just don’t see what the point was in doing it!

Well that’s beyond frustrating for those of us that are an actual size 6/XS. A lot of stores don’t actually stock 4s and 6s, or if they do it’s in much lower stock or only at larger stores/online. That means that the smallest sizes will be oversized on me if they’re actually a 8/10 and will make clothes shopping even more annoying as I can’t get a decent fit. Thank god i don’t shop at primark!

I also find that some H&M items fit quite oversized - mainly jersey items, jackets and dresses.

This drives me nuts. I am a petite and slim and am rapidly running out of places to buy clothes. I am a mature woman so I don't really want to buy from ranges more suited to teenagers when I need stuff for work. Hardly anything fits these days as everything is too big and square. I am a bit curvier than when I was in my early 20s but the vast majority of clothes these days I find too large, even so called petite ranges. It wasn't this hard when I started work in 1990!

Re-labelling clothes doesn't really matter so long as you can buy stuff that fits does it? I tend to mail order all my stuff because i am freakishly tall so i don't have a lot of experience of high street shopping but don't some shops cater mainly for larger sizes and others only go up to a 14 or whatever? Isn't that the way it's always been?
And, as a giant woman, who has a normal (higher end admittedly) BMI I can say that for me 8-10 would be extra small. The world is getting taller and it's hard to be a size 8 when you're tall, my hips and shoulders are broader than a woman a foot smaller than me. Discussions about weight size aren't always just about what people are or aren't eating, better nutrition has raised the average height which will be changing the shape of women.

I don’t have any feelings about it either way, I am just bemused by your picture of a world where fashion is targeted primarily towards larger people and where people who want smaller sizes are facing a lifetime of nudity as a result

It doesn’t look like anywhere I have ever been

maybe you aren’t in the UK?

I think the difference is now that fashion stores have a much larger demographic than decades ago. Previously once women were middle aged they typically would dress so and not wear the same sorts of clothes as teenagers and people in their early twenties. Now fashion stores are having to cater for much older women with middle aged spread! I remember times when middle aged women lived in kilts in the winter and loose-ish button down dresses in the summer or blouses and slacks!

Honflyr I think that probably is the sizing in most places (the latter) just not the cheaper places

Madge Totally aware and honestly it’s a constant struggle to try and keep my kids healthy weights (both are overweight and one obese but slowly getting better). As I said, we are pretty skint and I’m hyper aware of being able to afford healthier foods as opposed to cheap high fat junk.

But you’re still wrong here and quite obviously biased since you seem to only care that bigger sizes are continued to be catered for.

I’m not opposed to places offering larger sizes at all, I just don’t think it should be done by pushing smaller sizes in to a category that makes them seem much smaller than they actually are.

if it did happen that the cheapest places like Primark stopped doing the smallest sizes then it would be an issue for slim women on a tight budget. Supermarket clothing ranges and Peacocks have long been sized large. When I was younger I used to shop as if they didn't exist. TopShop and River Island were pretty cheap back then but are more expensive now. However ASOS, because its target market is late teens and twentysomethings, does have small sizes of cheap items and it seems unlikely it would stop carrying them.

Also for older woman who prefer the styles used by brands whose smallest size is too big. It is often brands marketed at older people who do the most generous sizing.

It did used to be difficult to get small sizes too. It wouldn't be a new problem. I remember in the 80s and 90s my mum being annoyed when trying to buy businesswear from department store ranges, because quite a few of them didn't do 8s, and the small number of 8s and 10s they stocked had often sold out (she assumed to part-time workers and housewives) by the time she had a chance to get into town. She still wore quite a few dresses that looked too big, and regularly took in skirts and trousers at the waist.

In the 00s and 2010s there has been much more availability of equivalent stuff which would now be size 6, plus a wider range of brands and shops, and ease of buying online.

I’m in the UK and no, don’t think no don’t think people will be pushed to be naked but actively reducing affordable clothes probably will mean wearing stuff that is far too big eventually.

Okay, I get it with regards to people being taller but I pretty much still don’t get it as all of the short arses (of which I am one) haven’t fallen off the edge of the planet

Should add that I’m 27 and this is probably affecting my annoyance as I really don’t want to be wearing a kilt anytime soon 😂

Ok. Fair enough. In my part of the UK, there are still plenty of clothing stocked in stores which would fit very slim or slim or healthy or normal (!) people

I appreciate it may be different in a different part of the UK- clearly where you are everyone is wearing a 20 and above, and the stores cater accordingly

Perhaps you would have better luck online? ConsIder ordering as well from Asian labels as they go down to very small sizes indeed

This clearly is very upsetting for you and I hope I have not increased your agitation by pointing out what I had thought were fairly obvious facts. I seem to ya e struck a nerve so will bow out.

I wish you success in looking for small sizes.

SchrodingersMeowth

Madge I’m NOT “very slender” which is where my issue is with this!

There’s plenty of sizes to reflect being bigger and barely any for the “smaller”! And I want to be able to buy cheap clothes too and Primark is the cheapest. We don’t have much money at all so it’s not as easy as just finding places that specifically cater to small sizes especially when I’m not even proper lower end of healthy!

Schroedingers, if that's true (and I don't doubt you, and I am sympathetic) then you are experiencing what fat people have experienced for decades..not nice is it? You'll get sympathy though..fat people? not so much.

Being annoyed because they're buggering about with the labels so nobody knows what to pick up anymore - well, that's understandable.

Saying that it's promoting obesity.... Really? Are there millions of women who were all perfectly slim who then saw that Evans had a size 22 so they all got on a mobility scooter to Greggs in order to fatten up? Or are we all filled with horror at the idea that a fatty might want to look nice? (Ahahahha, of course they can't look nice, they're OVERWEIGHT.)

People are dying of knife crime and dirty water and all sorts, and you're worried that chubsters being comfortable is going to bring down Western society?

If I were a very slim 5 foot tall woman I would check out the H and M section for girls in their early teens. Cheap, fashionable and small sizes. Also I don’t think there is vat on children’s clothes, so even cheaper than the equivalent garment in the women’s section

Sorry, that was goadier than I meant it. I just mean that we larger ladies are just large. We're not axe murderers or child molestors or traffic wardens ffs.

It's been being done for decades. A size 10 now would have been approximately a size 16 in 1958. I say approximately because you can't draw exact equivalences: women's clothing sizes are just made-up numbers and anyone can call anything any size they like. I don't understand why sizes can't be expressed in bust/wait/hip dimensions in inches/centimetres as they are for men's clothes.

I have just had to return some size 12s to M&S and substitute size 10. I've had broadly similar measurements and weight for the last 40 years, excluding pregnancy and there is no way I'm a size 10 - I was a size 16 back in the day and considered chunky - not a stealth boast. I hate buying a 10, I don't believe it will fit or that the shop will believe me if it shrinks!

We can have knitting patterns measured in inches, why not clothes? (Centimetres if you must.)

I have skipped to the end of the thread, so apologies if someone else has already suggested the OBVIOUS.

Why not label clothes with their actual SIZE, eg 36, 38 chest for tops, waist and/or hip size for trousers.

Dresses: now here is a thought, instead of making billions in the same one size fits all, how about some with bigger hips, some with smaller waists etc.. and actually put the measurements on the label.

In other words the way men's suits are sized, with various waist and chests, in tall, short, and medium.

@alligatorsmile Nah you're pretty much bang on.

Clothes ARE getting bigger, for a 6ft-er like me that is nice, but my 5ft friends find it harder now to find clothes in certain shops. But it's not a big deal for most people (as poster above suggested, they often buy kids' sizes)

I was a 14 or L in most places 15 yrs ago, now I am mostly a 12 or M.

I feel increasingly slim though really I am the same weight/measurements...

the western world is getting fatter. that is just a fact. Shops are following suit.

I don't care what the label says but make it consistent!
Example - ASOS dress, standard range, bodycon, size 14 fits perfectly
I spot a dress in the ASOS curve section, reason in my head it will come up larger from previously experience, also bodycon. What size did I need? Size 24! I mean WTF is an actual size 24 going to do there?

I have huge boobs so sizing is a minefield anyway but I'm generally a 14 bottom, 14 waist and 16 top/boobs. Wearing a 32K bra doesn't work with many high street clothes

totally agree OP. It's crazy walking around these days to see the obesity crisis and how bad it's getting! It should not be normalised further with this vanity sizing.

should not be normalised further with this vanity sizing

You cannot 'normalise' stuff. It is normal because it is the norm. It's a statistical phenomenon.

Shaming people out of their obesity does not work. Obese people need clothes to wear! They need to feel confident out in society in order to be able to be active. If obese people are shamed it will only encourage reclusive behaviour which makes an active lifestyle more difficult! Added to this reclusive behaviour makes disordered eating easier to sustain.

So true Slowrun.

I noticed the “improved sizing” tags in Primark this morning. I didn’t look close enough to see what it was talking about.

They shouldn’t mess about with sizing. A 12 should still be the same as a 12 was when I was in my teens/20s and it so obviously isn’t.

So this thread is just another excuse for naturally slim people to look down on other women who are not a size 8-10? Lovely

Looks like it. I would also prefer clothes to be sold by measurements. You could get a free measuring tape like in Ikea.

Why shouldn't larger people have clothes that fit them? Shopping should not be a fat-shaming experience. Losing weight happens usually when you are happy and feel good about yourself.