To think chivalry is dead?

[CrispyBanger]

Got the train home today from London at rush hour. It was packed, not a spare seat to be had. At the front of the train there are always a few unreserved seats, including 3 sets of priority seating and 2 tables. I sat in a priority seat. Of the other priority seats, 3 were taken by men with a further 7 men in the table seats.

Obviously pregnant lady (with a baby on board badge for extra measure) got on and stood in the aisle as it was so packed. I looked around expecting someone i.e. a man to offer their seat but no one did. I stood up and she took my seat.

Now, obviously there's a slim chance that the other people in the priority seating had non-visible seating needs but it's unlikely they all did. Am I showing my age or is it no longer the done thing to offer a seat to the elderly/pregnant ladies etc?

Incidentally, when I stood in the aisle a man sat at the table offered me his seat . So he didn't feel like he should offer it to a heavily pregnant lady but he did to a an obviously non pregnant lady?

“I don't even know where to start with posters who have a strop if their male partner took a seat and didn't give it to them or offer their seat up for an able bodied woman”

Well I wouldn’t be with a rude man. Each to their own.

It sounds as if the tubes are getting worse. Usually I just use the District Line Westbound. Men do offer you a seat about 50% of the time, I would say, or if you have kids they move so you can be together. The other day, when Trump was in town, the roads were gridlock, so we decided to get the tube back from Belsize Park to S Ken. I was lifted off my feet and had to get the kids off after one stop. Nobody can breathe, let alone think about seats.

If he offered you a seat he's obviously not a douche bag! Those badge don't get noticed all the time, people just look through people, mine got missed a lot and I just asked, people then moved with no issue. Not as big a deal as you think

You see this is where that age old saying comes in "damned if they do and damned if they don't". Men are far too worried to do anything for women these days just in case they are labelled sexist for being a gentleman.

When I mentioned I like men to open a door for me and hold it etc the other day on a thread, I was asked what was wrong with my arms by a woman. Eventually men are going to be walking around with their hands in their pockets (or maybe not in case they are accused of wanking while walking past a woman) looking down at the ground just in case they get accused of something.

DAMNED IF THEY DO, DAMNED IF THEY DON'T"

But yes it would be polite to get up for a pregnant, disabled or elderly person.

"Men are far too worried to do anything for women these days just in case they are labelled sexist for being a gentleman"
This sort of thing really pissed me off. Nice, kind, thoughtful men don't feel like this at all. Because they have always treated women nicely, kindly and thoughtfully. Sexist bastards, on the other hand.......

Jeez what is wrong with you women? Of course men should be chivalrous, A lot of you accept bad manners, what a shame

Jeez what is wrong with you women? Of course men should be chivalrous, A lot of you accept bad manners, what a shame

What a load of utter nonsense.

EVERYONE should have good manners whether male or female.

Well I wouldn’t be with a rude man. Each to their own.

How is rude for a man to sit while his partner stands, but not the other way round?

Imagine the Aibu. Female op posts that she got a tube with her DP, she took the last seat and didn't offer it to him. So he went mad, got off at the next stop and got an uber home. People would be calling him a manchild (at least). Or are women allowed to act like this and it's not childish?

Of course men should be chivalrous, A lot of you accept bad manners, what a shame

If you read the thread you would see that's not true. Chivalry and manners are 2 different things. Everyone should manners, men and women.

Men are far too worried to do anything for women these days just in case they are labelled sexist for being a gentleman.

That's just bull shit. As I said my dad has been challenged or door opening, by a women. He didn't give a shit. It didn't make him worried. He told her he opened the door for anyone. Which he would.

Of course everyone should have good manners - this goes without saying! Do you think I’d be sat there is an elderly person was in the train. Or just anyone I perceived wanted the seat more than me? I wouldn’t ask them, I’d just move and if they wanted the seat they could have it.

The sentiment I think some some sadly miss is that universal good manners are not incompatible with men being gentlemanly towards women. So, for instance, DH would give me a seat before himself, or open a car door for me, in a way I wouldn’t for him. Of course I can stand in a train or get into a car by myself , but this is not the point.

Vashna so what is your point?

I can't believe you would ever offer your seat to your Dp, but expect him to do this every time.

Dp appeared at my door this morning with a takeaway coffee, on his way to work. At 5.30am. He knew I would be up, will be back g a difficult day and got me my favourite coffee. It was so lovely.

But then I picked him up from work the other day and stopped to get him some water and his favourite snacks, because he had done a 12 hour day in manual job and I knew it would perk him up.

It called thinking of eachother.

I think the chivalry thing came out of women not being physically weaker, but because from a young age many women can have more reason to need to sit than some men. Whether terrible period cramps, early pregnancy (not noticeable yet) pains or sickness, later pregnancy, fragile/delicate feeling lady bits post partum, prolapses of various degrees that can be uncomfortable standing for long periods of time and then menopausal symptoms. I was taught as a girl, by my mother that for all these reasons I should give my seat up to a woman, she said the same to my brothers too. Whilst there are men out there no doubt suffering with non-obvious illnesses/ailments before old age the majority of men in a train carriage will be comfortable standing whereas a proportion of the women at any one time will be dealing with some kind of 'women's health issue'. These days, with modern pills, HRT, painkillers, perhaps we no longer need to consider these things, but just perhaps, as we are happy for women to bring up and fight for women's issues and the shit we have to deal with, part of that should be highlighting and accepting that yes, you know, we have done a day's work and we've done that whilst dealing with chronic period pain/growing a new human and therefore not eaten all day for fear of throwing up in a meeting/have not slept all night due to night sweats and all that whilst most likely not getting paid as much as our male counterparts so actually, we'd quite like a sit down, thanks.

So, for instance, DH would give me a seat before himself, or open a car door for me, in a way I wouldn’t for him. Of course I can stand in a train or get into a car by myself

Golly how exhausting. Me and my ex did nice stuff for each other. Not because of some archaic set of rules, but because that’s what nice people do

Oh come on, rainbow-don't you think it's funny that someone has managed to shoehorn a bit of mil bashing onto a thread about the death of chivalry?

If you mean the bit where you're laughing at someone saying "he didn't have good role models growing up" - you're the one getting just MIL out of it, making it all about the MIL.
I read it as good role models in general. You read it as automatic MIL bashing.
Go figure.

@MiddleagedManic There is no 'we' you can't speak for all women. I don't need anybody to offer me a seat.

I think women should start offering their seat to men, they may, after all, be brewing the man-flu which is beyond compare, apparently.

should be highlighting and accepting that yes, you know, we have done a day's work and we've done that whilst dealing with chronic period pain/growing a new human and therefore not eaten all day for fear of throwing up in a meeting/have not slept all night due to night sweats and all that whilst most likely not getting paid as much as our male counterparts so actually, we'd quite like a sit down, thanks.

So you would like it to be assumed that all women are suffering from women's health issues and therefore need a seat.

Yeah, that's not for me.

so actually, we'd quite like a sit down, thanks

So if you need a seat, ask for one. But don’t extrapolate your experiences out to all women.

Of course chivalry is dead, most men are terrified to anything these days.

Of course chivalry is dead, most men are terrified to anything these days

You must know some fairly pathetic men if they’re terrified to do anything

Poor men, they are terrified, they're not very emotionally robust, they die earlier, they've got little legs and a wobbly centre of balance. They just can't catch a break.

Let's take your reasons one by one Vashna:

I haven't had a period in nearly 8 years thanks to the contraception I use

I don't wear uncomfortable shoes, and if you do that's self-inflicted

Headaches/dizziness, do women still get those more than men since they stopped making us wear corsets?

I don't have varicose veins.

I can walk much further than DH.

What a load of sexist twaddle.

@CrispyBanger

I was raised that it's simply good manners. I'm shocked at the amount of people here of either gender who don't give up seats to those who need it more, that treat disabled people like a nuisance, don't hold doors, don't say "bless you" when people sneeze, or "pardon me" when needing to get past people.

Good manners and chivalry both seem dead here with some exceptions.

@StealthPolarBear

"Me can use their penises for extra balance when standing, like a three legged stool. Everyone knows that."

The average man just thinks he can.

Not all women, no, of course not, but if you take 50 men and 50 women commuting back from work on a train, odds are that a proportion of the women may that day be suffering silently.

I didn't say they were my experiences. No problems here of standing which is why I offer my seat up freely to anyone who looks like they need it more than me but also to those who may need it.

But, we can't deny that some women do have women-related health issues. Surely you must have friends/sisters/mothers who have had bad periods/pregnancies/menopause? Just saying 'no, not me!' isn't helpful. Why can't we recognise that these are things happening to womankind and support each other? There are always threads about women with bad pregnancies, daughters with period pains so bad that they can't manage a day at school and you want to just say 'nope, you have to stand because I don't get any of those symptoms!'. We can at least ask women if they'd like our seat if we're ok to stand?

When you look at the patriarchy we are still fighting against, it saddens me when we can't just give each other a bit of empathy, understanding and a hand.

And asking for a seat? When a woman dares to mention periods in parliament related to a valid economic argument she is shot down because it's 'private women's business' you expect a menopausal woman to ask for a seat? If that person refuses is she expected to explain her discomfort to the carriage? The idea is that we offer and then the person can refuse if they are able/wish to stand then, yes, politeness and kindness is now missing in the UK.

I think it's a bit like a new neighbour popping round to your house or someone doing work in your house and you not offering them a cup of tea - 'if you want one, you should ask for one!'. I would like to think that society is more polite than that and offers, just in case they are thirsty - they have the right to refuse if they don't want a drink.

Just an FYI. "Chivalry" is not dead anyway in certain areas of life. Women still do get quote a s0ecial treatment in certain situations. Google Chivalry theory.

Vashna I'm currently wearing pink, glittery trainers. They're perfectly comfortable, thanks.