To feel sickened that this man is being referred to in this way (WARNING UPSETTING CONTENT)

[bigoldscaredycat]

This man raped a three month old baby boy to the point where the baby needed corrective surgery.

He is now in a women’s prison in Canada where he has beaten up a female inmate.

THIS is where self ID leads. Men like this being incarcerated with women and their crimes being counted as female.

torontosun.com/news/national/feds-deny-paying-for-convicted-pedophiles-implants

www.newwestrecord.ca/dangerous-offender-in-b-c-loses-appeal-for-day-or-full-parole-1.23279132

Go on, Mumsnet, delete me for deliberately misgendering a male baby rapist.

THIS.IS.A.MAN.

Perhaps this story will illustrate why feminists are so up in arms about self ID.

I would love to see even the staunchest anti-women transactivist tell me that this person is a woman and that they belong in a women’s prison.

I would probably highlight the dangers of allowing such free movement of trans women in what is supposed to be female only environment. I would lay the blame of incidents such as the one in this thread at the feet of the trans community, they have their rights and should now be held accountable for incidents like this that have occurred as a result, a rapist being allowed into a female prison to attack other inmates.

It's not the fault of the trans community as a whole though. The people who should be held accountable are those who made the law, and who failed to do due diligence, taking into account all risks, and considering all the stakeholders involved. It's utterly unfair to lay that at the feet of the trans community as a whole, although the vocal transactivists need to shoulder some of the blame, as well as the media for failing to report the news accurately.

I think people on here distinguish constantly between the trans community as a whole and the vocal activists.

I know that trans women are women and I know trans men are men

Your knowledge is significantly flawed. I would suggest starting at the beginning again with basic biology lessons.

And transphobia is very nearly a meaningless term now. It's been thrown around so often, and applied to things that most rational people would agree are in no way transphobic, that it's lost most of its meaning and has been completely trivialised. Reality is transphobic. Women's rights are transphobic. Biology is transphobic.

Popchyk, no not according to me at all because I have not said that.

ToetoToe, it's exactly why I worry about the "not a real woman" argument, it's the easiest to label transphobic, as someone new to the discussion I have an admittedly uneducated viewpoint but what I see in everyday life is wholehearted acceptance of the trans community and the disgust at anything that slightly veers from it. It's honestly quite frightening, it's as though people are being brainwashed into conforming to this new norm under the threat of being labelled transphobic and it's working.

I think people on here distinguish constantly between the trans community as a whole and the vocal activists.

Not sure if this was to me or not... Because, yeah, I agree, but the post I responded to seemed to be referring to the trans community as a whole.

when you know that if one of your children came to you and said they were trans that you'd support them all the way.

It depends what you mean by support them. This is what I say to my D.C. including the gender non conforming:

“Gender is a social construct. It’s harmful for women and men. Liking certain things doesn’t mean you are a boy or a girl in the wrong body. Do what you want, wear what you like, love who you love. You cannot be born in the wrong body. You are perfect as you are.”

I say it word for word. The DC laugh and say yes we know, “Gender is a social construct..”

Needs, I appreciate you trying to think this through.

The problem I think is what does transgender mean? It can mean someone who is post-operative transsexual or a person who identified as the opposite sex yesterday and does not intend to have medication or surgery. The word now covers both, as well as non-binary and cross-dressers of course.

Do I think that every male person who identifies as transgender in prison has gender dysphoria? Nope, I think some of them see it as cushier way to serve their time and/or to get access to vulnerable women.

I read an article by a transgender prisoner themselves a while back who was saying that certain people are identifying as transgender in order to get favourable treatment. I'll see if I can find it.

The system is very ripe for abuse where it is something that certain people can just self-identify into. I think that is the point people are trying to make on here. And the genuine transgender people who do have gender dysphoria (a very small percentage of the population who currently identify as transgender) are being very badly served by this rush to accept without question violent and sexual male criminals' word that they are female.

This was written by a transgender inmate in Littlehey who expresses concern about what they call "trans-imposters".

Found it

I see a lot of people writing in to say how great their prison is for transgenders, so I’m writing to tell you about Littlehey.

There is a big trans’ population here – or is there? This is a predominately sex offender prison, and it is with utter disgust and concern as a non-sex offender trans’ prisoner that I find anyone can and does say they are trans’, just so they can continue in their sexual deviant ways, such as cross-dressing or avoiding having to do the SOTP programme because they become classed as females.

The sickest part of this is that the system can do sod-all about these trans’ bandwagon-jumpers, because the policy states they must be treated as transgender prisoners ‘if they say they are’. I have had staff and other inmates express their disgust to me (a genuine trans’ prisoner) over this behaviour.

You do not have to be transgender here, you only have to say you are and you do not even have to ‘live in role’. But on the flipside, if you are trans’ and are a slightly better-looking female than others, you get nothing but negativity and bitterness from those not quite able to carry off looking female.

So if you want to be able to avoid addressing your offending behaviour, come to HMP Littlehey and ‘go trans’’, if you enjoy unwanted sexual attention, or want to be slated by your own trans’ community, then come here.

You are fooling no one but yourself by living a lie, and it is trans-imposters who give real transgender people a bad name, in and out of prison. To genuine trans’ people – stay strong.

Thanks zeeboo for illustrating perfectly the ridiculousness of much of the current trans ideology and activism. Actually criticising posters for sharing articles and evidence in a debate. Because you just KNOW black is white, so who needs facts eh?

So many things and people have been labelled transphobic, it's lost all meaning now.

The fact is that men cannot, factually, scientifically, become women. If we capitulate on this point - then we allow anyone to say they are a woman, and to be treated as such. Including the rapists and killer in the OP. Including Ian Huntley.

If Ian Huntley says he identifies as a woman - then he is a woman. Because transwomen are women, right? So Ian Huntley gets moved to a women's prison.

When you know you aren't going to be raped in a changing room

Who knows that?

Thanks for that link Popchyk. Very interesting.

Neededastealthname

When the GRA was first written, it was estimated there would be about 5000 men with gender dysphoria who would avail themselves of the law. The right to a private life (i.e. not be outed), same-sex marriage and I think pension parity.

That number is consistent, today. Only 1% of trans people have a gender recognition certificate.

The people who are pushing for self ID, and not men with gender dysphoria. They are mostly made up of autogynephiles (AGP).

Historically AGP was not thought of as a good enough reason to be treated with hormones and surgery on the NHS. Neither was it, necessarily, given a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. It's a fetish. The NHS weren't about to finance it.

And gender dysphoria is currently a criteria for a gender recognition certificate.

Removing the criteria is a gift for AGP individuals. And any predator/chancer.

The equality law was designed to protect people who were embarking on transition.

But now the equality law is being exploited and the gender recognition act is under review.

Precisely because treating men with gender dysphoria was not designed to end up with child murdering paedophile rapists attacking women in prison.

The only way to shut down the narrative is to call these kinds of challenges transphobic.

Which is why you are shocked. Because it's been working.

Until now.

Which is why you are now listening.

Thank you for that popchyk, it's information like that letter that I believe should be highlighted above the science because it deals with serious concerns that are much harder to dismiss as transphobic. We don't need the right argument we need the one that will win.

ToetoToe, my concern is that it's not a fight we can win, it's human rights top trumps and the trans community appear to have the better cards.

Can I ask why people are allowed to transition in prison? If they have been convicted of a serious crime why are they being given the choice/freedom to 'change sex', get provided with hormones and surgery, surely they should have to wait until their sentence is completed. Or is transitioning seen as a human right under uk law? I am genuinely interested, not being goady. Also, if someone is a rapist or a murderer or something equally serious, why would anyone believe them when they say they are a woman? Surely they tell lots of lies, they didn't do it, she asked for it, it was an accident, if the law doesn't accept these lies as truth, why believe them when they say they are women and want to go to a woman's prison.

Neededastealthname, thanks for sticking around and engaging in the debate about this.

I only learned about this stuff by lurking on the discussions on Mumsnet. And then plucking up the courage to post on a thread about transgender males in women's sports.

That's exactly why we need to keep talking. A lot of people don't know that stuff like this (violent males in women's prisons) is even happening. But fortunately, the mainstream media is getting on board now and having a proper debate about it. This is hugely important.

what is difficult for me, is that while most trans people are not like the TRAs, they are certainly supportive and on the side of TRAs and they seem to think that gender critical feminists dont want them to live like that.
Its absolute bollocks. Most gender critical feminists dont have an opinion on the way other people dress or live. They just literally dont think those things make someone an ACTUAL woman.
I would be happy for anybody to defy gender stereotypes and show that theyre bullshit. I just think your sex remains your sex

Deadringer

In Ireland, where there are admittedly far fewer trans people, and little to no transactivism, you can transition in prison, but that doesn't give you any access to a female prison.

The only prisoners who can apply to a female prison are those who have transitioned prior to committing the crime.

Which is far more sensible. And eliminates those who transition in prison for the sole purpose of a transfer.

It's so obvious, it makes me despair of the people who didn't implement it here.

That is sensible Datsun.

I am actually relieved to see that most people actually can see that there is actually an issue here, even if some people are still wilfully deluded

just a shame it takes a fucking baby rapist to highlight it, even when Ian Huntley didnt

ToetoToe, my concern is that it's not a fight we can win, it's human rights top trumps and the trans community appear to have the better cards

We already won (for want of a better phrase) because we simply are women and girls by virtue of birth and those pesky chromosomes and will continue to be so.

Material reality will continue to win because even if transactivists remove every reference to female biology known to humankind we will still continue to be women and girls and they will continue being the sex they were born into and they cannot change that fact no matter how much they rage.

Transsexuals who have gender dysphoria will probably always exist in small numbers but the current trend for being trans/non binary especially where AGP individuals are concerned will have a tipping point where most people will look back and see it for what it is.

Prisons, detransitioners, health issues from puberty blockers, women's sports are all things that at some point in the future will come under scrutiny as a huge scandal and failure to safeguard individuals who have been hurt in the process.

Booboobooboo84
A man manly man man manly man man