To be disgusted by this?

[SerenDippitty]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-44858107

What if it had been another mother with a prank occupying the wheelchair space? Would she have felt entitled to ask her to move?

Funnily enough, this popped up in my feed today:

www.disabledgo.com/blog/2018/07/trio-of-coach-companies-agree-wheelchair-rule-changes-after-legal-warnings/#.W089MHeZM0o

Three national coach companies have agreed to change their rules so they no longer prevent wheelchair-users enjoying a “turn-up-and-go” service, thanks to a disabled campaigner.

The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) has even threatened to refer National Express, Megabus, Scottish Citylink and other providers to the Traffic Commissioner, who could remove their licences to operate coaches if they fail to comply with the law.

(contd)

Yes there are; it's not just size, it's wheel format and stability, battery type and safety, among other things. All train operating companies have full information on their websites. If a scooter user wants to take it on the railway, it has to comply with safety regulations and has to be approved for travel in advance. If the user wants to use a laptop or eat a meal in their scooter, it should be one that caters for that; I've seen them in use while travelling so don't tell me they don't exist.

The conditions for the use of that wheelchair space state that the passenger should occupy the scooter. This is to be fair to other passengers on crowded trains, but many times it's overlooked because the train isn't that crowded. This time the choice was between the space being used for prohibited goods carriage - the unoccupied scooter - and a passenger in a pram needing the space. The passenger wins over the goods carriage. Would you have it any other way?

My very extensive experience of the PassengerAssist service is that it's generally provided what I asked for, with some notable exceptions which resulted in Great Western Trains (as was) sending me 80 miles home in a taxi from Reading, no less than three times. They also sent me a gold pass first class travel voucher on each occasion.

In my year and a bit living where I do now, I've found the service from East Midlands Railway people up to scratch and very helpful, especially in turfing people out of my reserved seat. YMMV.

If your service from PassengerAssist isn't up to scratch, tell them so, complain, and complain each time. You should at least get your fare back. ToCs hate paying compensation, nag them until they get the message and you get compensation. Passenger help is a statutory obligation.

Well funnily enough it was great western involved in this incident as well. And having had extensive dealings with them in the past it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

@FeistyOldBat as a scooter user, with respect you are wrong the individual scooter does not have to be approved in advance, it merely has to be within the published dimensions (including the dimension for the turning circle and weight) you do not have to remain in the scooter as passenger services have also booked me the seat adjacent to the space (without me requesting it). Buses, yes you need a preapproved pass but trains you do not.

Buses, yes you need a preapproved pass but trains you do not.

Indeed. Certainly in our neck of the woods you need to take a "test" at the bus depot before you are allowed on the bus in a powerchair.

@ProfessorMoody then you should know that trains and busses both stipulate that you must remain sitting on your scooter or in your wheelchair. If you don't need to remain in the scooter then you are advised that you should travel with a fold up one.
The rules are perfectly clear.
If she had vacated her scooter then I think it does change the nature of the incident a fair bit.

Buses are rapidly becoming extinct where I am for everyone, but when we had them they were horrendous as the driver required some special training to operate the ramp never mind trying to get on in a powered chair or scooter!

Yes because there are loads of fold up scooters on the market . As stated up thread, people use scooters because they are a third of the price of powered wheelchairs. Fold up ones are very expensive. Basically most scooter dismantle rather than fold. It's a difficult thing to do when you are disabled; I candy dismantle and reassemble mine.

So basically the train companies are saying you must spend x amount of money on your disability aid to access transport. Or tough luck.

Can't dismantle.

Are you disabled, Zeeboo? Do you know what it's like to have to travel by scooter or wheelchair?

I have one power chair. It cost me £3000 and that was for a cheap one. I can't fold it. It causes me pain to sit in it constantly so if I can move to another seat, I will, and I really couldn't care about the entitlement of people who aren't facing my difficulties.

I can't get a "fold up" one, because I get £500 a month in benefits and nothing more. If you can afford to live off that and spend even more than £3000 on a folding powerchair that's comfortable enough to sit in for long periods of time, I'll congratulate you.

Just because she "vacated her scooter" changed the incident enough that she was verbally harassed and abused by the guard and the mother? You disgust me.

I would imagine - based on DWs situation - that very few disabled people can work a folding scooter. Her condition is MS, so fucked eyes, fucked legs, fucked sense of touch and fucked balance. That's on a good day.

Even having a scooter - or access to one - isn't perfect. You are, after all, a slow-moving target for muggers or worse. I mean, £3,000 for a scooter ? You can bet some low lifes would nick that in a heart beat. Once they offloaded the rider, that is.

The amount of dismissive posts are astounding. So very may people happy to show their utter ignorance and lack of empathy, t'is unsettling, weird!

Basically I am not able to walk very far.

I can drive. I can fold my manual wheel chair and put it in the car. But then I need someone to push me when I arrive.

I can drive but I can't disassemble and reassemble my scooter. To be honest I can barely lift it. So again I can't go alone.

So I can go by train with my scooter and leave it assembled and in one piece. But train assistance is sketchy and unreliable and does not allow me to be spontaneous.

Basically I am an intelligent capable woman and I am stuffed in terms of independence. Thank God I work from home and have supportive friends and family.

So basically the train companies are saying you must spend x amount of money on your disability aid to access transport. Or tough luck. and the government will say that if you can fold your scooter independently or indeed move from it or a wheelchair to a seat you’re not disabled enough and will lose your disability benefits.

So because someone can walk the short distance between the disabled spot and their seat they shouldn't be able to travel but someone who chose to buy a pram that couldn't be folded should be free to evict them? Ridiculous. I'd be shocked that anyone would be selfish enough to insist on it being moved and I'm shocked that there's a guard whose enough of a jobsworth to listen to the complaint.

I also can't believe the idiotic comments from people who at most know one disabled person and think they're an authority on all forms of disability and how easy it is to get around.

Terms and conditions for rail travel prohibit non-foldable prams or pushchairs - they're only to be carried folded in the luggage rack.

So if we're going down the route of her not sitting on her scooter then there is still no right for a pushchair to be put in that space.

I made the mistake of listening to an item on this on the Jeremy Vine show. Utterly appalling and the awful disablist comments from listeners were disgusting. I won’t be listening to him again after he put forward that first come first served was the best option. I don’t have a disability and I think this incident has opened my eyes a little bit about the awful attitudes out there.

And it beggars belief that we all carry around bits of technology with the computing power capable of sending a rocket to the moon apparently.

Yet no one can engineer an affordable lightweight foldable scooter apparently. I keep telling our kid to go on the apprentice and get Lord Sugar onto it; he'd make a mint.

(And I don't believe it should matter that she wasn't on the scooter, I say that purely for discussion).

It's a shitty situations n. Woman with pram was injured- couldn't fold down the buggy. Had booked the seat this woman was sat in. Her partner couldn't fold down the scooter because he had hurt his wrist. They were sat in the woman with babies spot (according to her own video) both had collapsible items- the scooter and the pram. Neither of them felt capable of doing so. This more highlights he need for more spaces (and smaller bloody buggies that fold) than anything else.

I was on a train a couple of weeks ago and the one before it had been cancelled. A guy was on the platform in his wheelchair and made clear to a member of station staff that the train was not leaving without him on it, he was fed up of waiting and someone had to help him board.

Anyway he got on the train ok. He got off at the station before mine, and again there was no help and the guard had to go off and find a ramp. It sounded as if there had been a bit of an altercation between them. The guard then apoligised for the delay to the train (3-4 minutes) "due to helping a disabled passenger". I was a bit annoyed, I thought he shouldn't have been apologising for that. I didn't say anything though because I didn't want him having a tantrum with me rather than opening the train doors at my station. I've seen it happen when others have dared to express an opinion that the train crew don't like.

Different rail company to GWR but it seems to me that the guards (and platform/station staff) do need a lot more training on equality issues.

The amount of dismissive posts are astounding. So very may people happy to show their utter ignorance and lack of empathy, t'is unsettling, weird!

No, it's the plan working. Demonise the disabled (after all, we all know that they deserve it anyway. God says so). Treat them with suspicion, and make it seem like every person in a wheelchair should really be in the paralympic squad or they are malingering, and this is what you get.

Just look at how often a thread pops up about benefits. Never "I know someone who is vulnerable, and want to make sure they are claiming every penny they are entitled to. But so-and-so is claiming benefits and I don't think they should.

It is simply not true that you have to sit on the wheelchair in trains or fold it up. When I booked passenger assistance they asked me if I wanted another seat reserved as well for me to sit on, as well as the wheelchair space. I said I didn't know as I didn't know if I would be able to transfer. They said they would book the wheelchair space and a seat for me and I could use both or only wheelchair space as I wanted.

Yep God and Glenn Hoddle, who still has a career as a pundit. Disablism is not so big a crime apparently. But that's a story for another thread.