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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be disgusted by this?

215 replies

SerenDippitty · 17/07/2018 21:12

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-44858107

What if it had been another mother with a prank occupying the wheelchair space? Would she have felt entitled to ask her to move?

OP posts:
Hawkie · 19/07/2018 11:52

@crunchymint - ah my mistake I did think the mother was there first.

@fuckpants a broken arm is classified as a disability

TinklyLittleLaugh · 19/07/2018 11:53

I do get helped quite a lot when I'm out and about; probably because I am a reasonably easy on the eye, slim, affluent looking woman in a wheelchair, invariably accompanied by my handsome husband or one of my attractive adult daughters.

I suspect we tick a few "tragic" boxes. Certainly on a recent visit to London young men of all description were falling over themselves to help my daughter Hmm

But on several occasions I have been out and my husband has had to step in to help less socially acceptable disabled people who were out on their own and really struggling. People unable to get on lifts and buses. People who were simply stuck and being ignored.

FuckPants · 19/07/2018 11:58

@fuckpants a broken arm is classified as a disability

You are having a laugh? It's a short term impairment.

FeistyOldBat · 19/07/2018 12:05

I'm a retired lifetime railway employee (safety manager), and a severely disabled person who travels around Europe a lot by train.

The most important fact is missing from that article, and it's whether either passenger booked help in advance.

Anyone can request help for rail travel, but if someone not disabled or elderly, travelling with a pram had wanted to reserve a space for the pram, PassengerAssist would have told them to call Customer Services, who would have told them that a pram or buggy should be foldable, put in the luggage compartment, and the child should travel with the adult. It's a safety issue, safety takes priority at all times, passenger comfort comes second. Passengers have a responsibility here, prams are dangerous even if braked. The only safe way of carrying a pram on a train safely, is secured with chains or lashing tape as used for aircraft loads, in a goods carriage. When did you last see a goods carriage at the back of a passenger train? Not for several decades.

For a person travelling in their own wheelchair calling PassengerAssist, the train company would provide a ramp to board and leave the train and reserved a wheelchair space with reservation card on it with the passenger's name and the departure and arrival stations.

The train and station staff (train company or Network Rail depending on the station) get a daily updated list of special needs travellers they need to look out for and the help needed. Help booked for same day travel is telephoned through to those who need to know, confirmed by email.

PassengerAssist serve disabled and older passengers; they are able to book priority seats and wheelchair spaces on trains. Customer Services serves everyone else; they can't book priority seats or wheelchair spaces.

The guard should be on a disciplinary charge, the train company should look at their staff training. I suspect this is a one off, it still shouldn't happen. The guard would have been alcohol-tested at the first opportunity and taken off duty until after an enquiry and retraining if necessary. Great Western Railway have had to change plans to update their rolling stock because of the expensive failure of the Great Western Main Line electrification project. They're running some of the oldest, least disabled-friendly trains on the railway – many from 1976 on the main line services to my knowledge. New trains are planned to have better facilities for disabled people.

The railway needs to be renationalised completely, vested in a company without shareholders, a for-profit body with all profits put back into the railway, run at arm's length from government, by experienced railway managers, so that everyone can talk to everyone else. Bring back the old Rules of the Route system to manage repair and maintenance planning so everyone knows what everyone else is doing, nationally..

Confuzzlediddled · 19/07/2018 12:08

Part of this issue will almost certainly have been because of the common belief that if you're in a scooter you're not "properly" disabled, just lazy and possibly fat. I am fat, partly because I can hardly walk, I use a scooter as it was a lot cheaper to buy than a powerchair once it became too difficult to use my manual chair, the scooter was 900 whereas it would be at least 3 times that for a powerchair.

As it was a disabled/wheelchair space then it shouldn't have been able to be booked for a pram, unless that pram was effectively a wheelchair for a disabled child.

FeistyOldBat · 19/07/2018 12:08

Having read the somewhat nasty thread about grammar etc in posts, this is an apology for the tautology in para.3 of my long post.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 19/07/2018 12:18

Yeah Confuzz don't you know that any lazy con artist can buy a scooter. Proper disableds use a wheelchair.

And as someone who uses both, there is a marked difference in people's attitudes to you.

SerenDippitty · 19/07/2018 12:55

The 'more' is that the mother had a broken arm and made a huge fuss.

How was she planning to feed/change/comfort the baby if she was unable to get it out of the pram and how was she able to handle a big pram with a broken arm?

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 19/07/2018 12:57

Im shocked at this but unfortunately not surprised. Confuzz you are absolutely bang on.................my DH uses a mobility scooter and towards the end of last year our housing officer (housing association) pinned a tort notice to the wall telling him to get rid of the scooter or they would take it and destroy it This was accompanied by a letter a few days later saying that unless it was removed they would take it and sell it. They left us worried and stressed for weeks in the run up to Christmas and wouldnt budge on it..............until i started posting screen shots of the tort notice on twitter with text about what was happening, and i still didnt get believed and had people take the piss from some on MN and on the Reddit board. (im not a reddit poster but i typed my MN user name in google search on a hunch) In fact when i post about it on threads on here it gets brought up on MN Trolls on Reddit (type my MN username and mobility scooter in Reddit search and you will see the attitudes) it got resolved in the end and DH now has a shed to keep it in after 12 years of storing it indoors under the stairs but only because i kicked off on social media. Other tenants who dont have this recourse havent been so "lucky"

HelenaDove · 19/07/2018 13:10

They said it was a fire hazard.

TheFairyCaravan Sat 25-Nov-17 11:28:29

I’ve just found a link for this study because it’s been bugging me.

Here it is. It says that since 2009/10 there have been 36 fires involving mobility scooters, of which 24 were started deliberately. So that’s 12 over 7/8 years. They are not a big risk. I bet the fire service go out to more than 12 fires started by candles a day.

24 were started DELIBERATELY. So disabled people are to be punished for the fact that some people hate them so much that they are willing to commit arson.

FeistyOldBat · 19/07/2018 13:24

Those bumpy-brick surfaces are a classic example of an adaptation for one disabled person (a blind pedestrian) being hell on wheels for another disabled person (wheelchair user).

Not enough research being carried out combined with such drastic cuts to Council services inevitably mean the minimum provision legally possible. You really wouldn't think this was the 21st century.

ProfessorMoody · 19/07/2018 13:36

A broken arm is NOT a disability, it's a temporary injury.

FeistyOldBat · 19/07/2018 13:47

Disabled woman can't reserve disabled spaces for her scooter, the online booking system doesn't allow it

That's because the huge number of models of motor scooters is a problem for online systems; the passenger should just telephone the service instead, it's staffed 24 hours a day.

Motor scooter owners who want to take their scooter on a train have to get prior approval of the scooter model from the train company, to confirm that the scooter complies with the train company's safety requirements. This is usually validated by the train company issuing a pass for future travel with the scooter. This is because motor scooters are powered town vehicles and raise safety concerns not applicable to wheelchairs.

The train companies also expect that the passenger, being seated safely, will travel in their scooter and not treat the space provided as carriage for goods or luggage, while sitting in a regular seat. This is why there's usually a sign, often ignored, that luggage should not be placed in that space.

There certainly is a lot more detail to this than has been published. That doesn't excuse the guard's rudeness, though. The passenger was wrong to have treated her motor scooter as luggage, seating herself in a regular seat.

DiamondsBestFriend · 19/07/2018 14:10

This insistence that disabled people should have to ring to book in advance is just yet another example of how disabled people are being marginalised.

Yes, if you want to travel on a particular train and be sure that you will get assistance then it would be wise to book in advance in the same way you might book a seat on a train. But in any other event disabled people should have the right to turn up at the station in the same way that anyone else can and board the next convenient train. Why shouldn’t they?

And if you have to book for a mobility scooter you should have to book for a pram, oh but wait, the pram owner boarded after the disabled customer with the scooter and the disabled customer got the blame, publicly.

And no, a broken arm is not a disability, although it should give someone a bit of an insight into what having a disability is like, but it would appear not since having a pram is clearly viewed as being entitled to more than being disabled.

So let’s quit with the “there’s more to this” bollocks shall we? The woman boarded a train with her husband. When an entitled woman with a pram (and let’s be honest here there are none so entitled as those who happen to have buggies) boarded the train and insisted on her buggy taking priority over the already present scooter. Instead of being told that the space was full, the conductor humiliated the motor scooter owner by telling her that she should move or he would call the police (I would have let him tbh but can understand why she didn’t.) and then went on to make public announcements about how she was the one responsible for the delay.

More to the story my arse. Even if she should have called to check the scooter was allowed to remain so clearly it wasn’t a disallowed one. The conductor was in the wrong, and the buggy owner turned up after the disabled one. That is all that counts.

DiamondsBestFriend · 19/07/2018 14:15

And let’s remember shall we that accessible spaces were fought for by wheelchair users and that it is buggy owners who have highjacked them for their own purposes. Perhaps they’d rather go back to the days before it wasn’t possible to have a bloody great buggy which could be wheeled on to a train.

A buggy the size of a tank is a lifestyle choice. A wheelchair or motor scooter is not

HelenaDove · 19/07/2018 14:16

Diamond disabled people and their carers can take loads of screenshots and video etc........but there will still be people willing to perform mental gymnastics to make it the disabled persons fault.

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 14:55

Those bumpy-brick surfaces are a classic example of an adaptation for one disabled person (a blind pedestrian) being hell on wheels for another disabled person (wheelchair user).

But the bumpy brick surfaces all over (say) Brindleyplace in Birmingham (built less that 10 years ago) aren't. They just "look nice", with the added advantage they keep wheelchair users to a minimum

Currently they are spending millions, if not billions in Birmingham with fuck all concessions to the less able.

It never ceases to amaze me what disabled people are capable of.

Hang on, that came out wrong. What I really meant was it never ceases to amaze me what able bodied people believe disabled people are capable of.

"Can't you just bump down the kerb ...?"
"Can't you just go up this step ...?"

and so on.

But, wheelchair basketball looks great fun ....

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 14:58

Remember, the UN has said the UK is pretty shit for the disabled.

The only consolation, although it's bitter fruit, is that a lot of problems the disabled face are also common in the elderly. So as entitled generations age, there will be some kickback.

Confuzzlediddled · 19/07/2018 15:13

@feistyoldbat my mobility scooter is a class 2, which is the same classification as a powerchair, not a "town scooter" I haven't been asked for dimensions, only to confirm it is within the published size, and also was not told to remain in it, in fact I also had the seat immediately adjoining the wheelchair space reserved by the assistance line when I travelled on virgin East coast in June.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 19/07/2018 15:19

Oh come on, Feisty there's no difference between a scooter small enough to fit on a train and a wheelchair.

And I don't really see why you should be expected to sit in your scooter for the journey. For one thing it's less safe, for another there's no table if you want to eat or use a laptop or something. Many people transfer from their wheelchairs and leave their wheelchair in the space.

And every disabled person knows the booking system is a complete shambles. Even if you manage to book its 50 50 whether your help turns up or not.

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 15:23

And I don't really see why you should be expected to sit in your scooter for the journey.

Not everyone can physically transfer, and others might need specialist help or equipment to transfer.

That said, you could probably make life easier for 80% of the disabled population by tiny adaptations that able-bodied people wouldn't notice.

blackbirdbluebottle · 19/07/2018 15:28

I feel sorry for that poor lady and the mother should be ashamed of herself! Why she couldn’t have just put her child in the car seat like the lady on this morning suggested and let the lady in the scooter stay where she was

DGRossetti · 19/07/2018 15:42

At the risk of stating the obvious, it's worth pointing out to people this is news to, that under the crackdown on huge tax avoiding companies benefits scroungers, disabled people are expected to work a 9-5 and not whinge about such trivia as getting to work.

Most - if not all - of the stories on this thread are about one-off journeys. Imagine trying it on a twice-daily basis.