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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to be upset my sister bought her baby son a golliwog toy?

125 replies

MsOedipaMaas · 17/07/2018 12:44

My sister recently sent a picture of her and her baby son (my nephew to whom I'm godmother) - and in the picture he is holding a golliwog doll. I was horrified that he had the doll (which I consider to be racist and can't even believe she could find for sale anywhere) and immediately messaged her saying I didn't want to sound like I was telling her how to raise her son, but that the toy was unsuitable given its history and offensive caricature and that it was unfair to give a baby a toy that was so widely perceived to be a racist object. I also included a link to an online article that explained the history of the toy and why it is considered racist. My sister sent a message back saying she didn't realise the history and understands it's not a socially acceptable toy and that the toy would be a "stay at home" toy and not be called a golliwog but a different name. I still don't think this is the correct response – I don't believe that any toy that is unsuitable for a child to take out in public, shouldn't be given to a child in the first place, and I believe that it's sending the message that "socially unacceptable" views are okay to have at home, as long as you don't let others know. She says she bought the toy because my dad had a similar toy growing up in the 1950s (which he has kept and has in his study). My parents (the grandparents) think that it's fine for him to have a golliwog. Am I being unreasonable? I don't want to appear to be telling her how to raise her son (he is the first baby in the family) but I also don't feel like I can stand by in this particular case without saying anything..

OP posts:
Ghanagirl · 20/07/2018 12:21

@Racecardriver
teaching children that other people's feelings matter validates their own unreasonable feelings.
Utter rubbish!

DeadButDelicious · 20/07/2018 12:38

I’m a black woman and find these dolls very offensive and incredibly racist as everyone should. Even if a minority of black people are “okay” with them being sold, it doesn’t mean they are okay. They might have been a part of your childhood, they might have been cute but they’re a symbol of racism used to mock a black person. I’m sorry but anyone who simply thinks it’s okay to buy a racist doll for a child is ignorant.

These are the voices we should be listening too. The voice of someone's lived experience with actual racism. Those dolls are racist and it's not ok to minimise that because some have fond memories of them.

My grandparents bought one for me as a child in the 80's. I don't think I had it a few hours before it was gone and my grandparents told never to bring one into the house again.

manicinsomniac · 20/07/2018 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Confusedbeetle · 20/07/2018 12:44

Lets put this in perspective from a child of the 1950's. yes, Golliwog toys are an unacceptable representation, as were the Minstrels. That was then, this is now. Your sister needs to understand this toy will get a negative response is seen outside so she keeps it at home. At home, the child cannot possibly understand the racist implications. It's a toy. In fact, I would have a mind as the child grows up, to use the toy as a teaching aid to changing attitudes and what is now acceptable. You have expressed your views, now mind your own business. This will only be a problem if you make it one. There is a bit of a theme going on at the moment with people taking great exception of famous people now received to be racist, Kipling, Rhodes. People lived in different cultures, and times. Just because things have changed doesn't mean you can get hysterical about something you perceive to represent racism, even if it does! We hope to move on and be more enlightened, that's all we can do. Personally, I wouldn't buy a child a Golliwog, but that is my personal choice. whingey arse, this is nothing to do with being racist in private but not in public, sister did not know the implications. Owning Golliwog does not actually make you a racist amazingly. It should make you think about such things and consider how others might respond. Children need to be taught about such things and how things have changed. That does not make you Grandparents bad people!

ADastardlyThing · 20/07/2018 12:50

Yanbu at all, but you've made your point, not much else you can do.

I have one from a family member that I can't bring myself to chuck away so it stays well and truly in the 'memory box'!

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2018 12:52

“For me, and many people, golliwog and similar objects have zero racial connotations.”

That’s only because you don’t understand!

Genderwitched · 20/07/2018 12:55

I'm sorry, but the banana analogy is absolute rubbish. A banana is not a grotesque representation of a black person Hmm you can't use a gollywog in a racist or non racist way, it just IS racist.

Op you have made your point and you now have to leave your sister to get on with it, she probably knows full well what she is doing, she just doesn't care, and it is not your place to insist.

KokoandAllBall · 20/07/2018 15:16

Those memories do stir up lovely images and reminders for me of a different time when life was simpler.

For white people. For white men mainly. Up until the end of the 80s a husband could just fuck his wife whenever he wanted, however she felt about it, whether she wanted to or not, because marital rape did not exist. Simpler times!

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 20/07/2018 15:20

For white people

For white straight ablebodied men.

Everyone else had make do or scramble for whatever rights they were given in varying degrees of severity.

KokoandAllBall · 20/07/2018 15:27

I grew up in the 70s. We had the marmalade jars with golliwogs on them and Enid Blyton books with friendly golliwogs in them, I also had the Little Black S**o book, and I didn't see it as racist. I just saw another character. But I also grew up in a very white town and didn't mix with black people until I went to college, so I had no idea if they were being used to bully or mock black people.

Now we have no excuse, we know that they are demeaning and dehumanizing caricatures and you do't have to search for long online to find pieces written about them by black people who patiently explain why they are racist. So when I repurchased books from my childhood I avoided any featuring golliwogs or the one I mentioned above, because I now know better and won't knowingly buy racist and hurtful items. If they aren't illegal, they should be.

This post was edited by MNHQ

KokoandAllBall · 20/07/2018 15:27

For white straight ablebodied men.

Absolutely.

KokoandAllBall · 20/07/2018 15:30

(Apologies for not censoring an offensive term above, I thought I had. I've reported it to MN.)

Winterbella · 20/07/2018 15:36

I had one of these in the 80's you saved up the tokens from the jam and could send off for one, no one made anything of them it was just a stuffed toy, no association for us with racisim tbh wouldn't have known what that even was.

You can't force your sister to take it away all you can do is keep to your own principles not impose them on her I'm afraid.

Ghanagirl · 20/07/2018 15:41

Those memories do stir up lovely images and reminders for me of a different time when life was simpler.
Oh yes the good old days when black people knew their place...

Sparklesocks · 20/07/2018 15:47

I sometimes wonder what people with golliwogs would do if they had black friends visit the house, or a black child from their DC's school.

If they hide it then surely they know it's racist connotations?

I just don't understand why you'd want them. They are offensive and there are literally millions of other dolls/toys you could choose. Even if your past has happy/nostalgic memories linked to them they aren't acceptable now, you liking them in the 70s/80s doesn't change that.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 20/07/2018 15:55

"I dont like them however I appreciate someone from my mums generation having one if only toy left over from childhood."
I do get irritated by this "oh, it's OK if old people are racist" thing. My mother explained why gollywogs are racist to me in the mid 60s

Maybe try actually reading more thag the first part of a comment before jumping down my throat. I said I would understand them owning one if it was a treasured item from their childhood. I also said I would judge them for displaying it.

Maybe just me but when I had toys as a child, I imagined they all had personalities etc I hate to think of them abandoned in some landfill site. Actually makes me a bit sad.

My mum doesn't have one, probably never did. I also have no idea when these were popular as they have never been acceptable in my lifetime. But they were a popular toy for children at some point and as such some older people are bound to have one which they treasure for the memories of when they were young

FissionChips · 20/07/2018 19:05

My mum doesn't have one, probably never did. I also have no idea when these were popular as they have never been acceptable in my lifetime. But they were a popular toy for children at some point and as such some older people are bound to have one which they treasure for the memories of when they were young

Women’s weekly had a knitting pattern for them in one of their 1960’s issues, not sure when they stopped that.

AIBU to be upset my sister bought her baby son a golliwog toy?
AIBU to be upset my sister bought her baby son a golliwog toy?
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 20/07/2018 19:24

They were slowly phased out over several decades.
Notice how it's referred to as a "pet".

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 21/07/2018 02:01

CaptainKirkssparetupee - Not to detract from your other comments, but don't read into the use of the word 'pet' and find aggravation where none was intended.

A pet doesn't just refer to a subservient animal that you keep at home, possibly in a cage. It also has the equal meaning of 'favourite' and was used much more commonly in decades gone by to mean exactly that.

A 'teacher's pet' doesn't live under a desk and drink from a bowl; the Beach Boys' iconic 'Pet Sounds' album didn't feature barking and miaowing. Whatever else you might think of the acceptability of otherwise of the publishing of this knitting pattern, they were clearly simply saying that it would become the children's favourite toy.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 21/07/2018 05:40

Fair enough

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2018 07:19

None of my family has ever owned a golliwog, even my grandfather who is 76 has never had one and doesn't like them.

I think they're awful. Where I live they don't sell anything like that but when I went on a trip to York I saw them in a shop there for the first time and it really shocked me.

I just don't understand why you would buy one in 2018 when there are plenty of other toys to choose from.

I'm white and it's not our place to decide whether golliwogs are racist or not! Would some of you on here like it if a man came onto a thread about women's issues and started offering his opinions on what is sexist or not towards women? It's the same thing.

thegreylady · 21/07/2018 07:42

I lived in Sierra Leone in the late 60s/early 70s and was asked for these toys by our nanny for her four daughters. I found girl gollies which were loved and appreciated. That was then, I had a golly myself but he now lives in the loft wrapped up and with dd’s old teddy for company.

Pengggwn · 21/07/2018 07:43

I think it's grim, but she can do what she likes and you've made your point. You can't force her to throw the golliwog away.

MadameGerbil · 21/07/2018 08:59

Saw one for sale in May this year in the window display of a "fancy goods" tourist shop in Skegness high street and remember the cognitive dissonance of seeing something so out of place ....😮

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