Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be upset my sister bought her baby son a golliwog toy?

125 replies

MsOedipaMaas · 17/07/2018 12:44

My sister recently sent a picture of her and her baby son (my nephew to whom I'm godmother) - and in the picture he is holding a golliwog doll. I was horrified that he had the doll (which I consider to be racist and can't even believe she could find for sale anywhere) and immediately messaged her saying I didn't want to sound like I was telling her how to raise her son, but that the toy was unsuitable given its history and offensive caricature and that it was unfair to give a baby a toy that was so widely perceived to be a racist object. I also included a link to an online article that explained the history of the toy and why it is considered racist. My sister sent a message back saying she didn't realise the history and understands it's not a socially acceptable toy and that the toy would be a "stay at home" toy and not be called a golliwog but a different name. I still don't think this is the correct response – I don't believe that any toy that is unsuitable for a child to take out in public, shouldn't be given to a child in the first place, and I believe that it's sending the message that "socially unacceptable" views are okay to have at home, as long as you don't let others know. She says she bought the toy because my dad had a similar toy growing up in the 1950s (which he has kept and has in his study). My parents (the grandparents) think that it's fine for him to have a golliwog. Am I being unreasonable? I don't want to appear to be telling her how to raise her son (he is the first baby in the family) but I also don't feel like I can stand by in this particular case without saying anything..

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/07/2018 00:54

I used to have loads of gollies when I was a kid (still have them) and they were my very favourite toys. As I had working eyes, I did notice that, yes, most of them had black faces (although there were a few with brown, grey or even white faces - but they were still clearly styled as cute gollies) and, as kids often do with their teddies, I gave them names, talked to them and assigned them personalities. But even at a very young age, I knew full well that they were teddies, toys, my 'little friends' - and in no way actually people.

Even when I was a child, a long time ago, they were normally known as a 'golly', without the undoubtedly questionable suffix, which I was always led to believe (from the Robertsons literature) originated from a childish attempt to say the word 'dolly', which makes perfect sense to me. Apparently, they were made from the thick fabric of the skirts that housewives wore, when they became old and threadbare - which were commonly black in colour.

Latterly, when I became aware of the political awkwardness that existed and that they were becoming more and more scarce in shops, I mentioned this sometimes to shopkeepers, who told me that the majority of gollies that they sold were to black customers, who were often very happy to actually still find one.

FWIW, nearly all standard plastic dolls (many of which, I think, look quite scary) and rag dolls (much cuter, IMO, in a similar way to gollies) sold in the UK until fairly recently were white/Caucasian in colour until it was quite rightly identified as a problem, and now you can get dolls of colours more akin to a wide range of normal skin tones. As we all, children and adults (barring a few racist idiots) understand that these are 'toy people' and not actual people, what's the difference? As a PP mentioned, Cabbage Patch Dolls were invariably (all?) Caucasian-coloured and were very grotesque and exaggerated in their format. It never occurred to me for a moment as a child to feel offended as they were white toys and I was a white human person.

Sadly, we'll always have racist idiots to contend with. I've heard a lot of reports of brainless morons taking bananas to football matches and throwing them at black players in some kind of severely misguided belief that demonstrating to everybody how they are unable to understand the very clear differences between humans and monkeys/gorillas will make them look funny and clever. Oh dear.

Now I frequently buy bananas and we always have some in our house. When I pick one up, rather than bizarrely throwing it at a footballer, I peel it, eat it and enjoy it. As do millions of people - black, white and Asian - every day. Are we all secret racists who are condoning the continued acceptability of bananas by brazenly keeping them in our homes?

People's individual sensitivities should be respected, but you also have to take responsibility yourself and learn to ignore things that you object to for whatever reason, be they toys, TV programmes, foodstuffs, MN threads or anything. Don't read it, don't buy it, don't et it, don't use shops that sell it etc.

RedDwarves · 20/07/2018 01:06

You see them a lot still in Australia. We also had golliwog biscuits that were only renamed scalliwags a few years ago, but the actual biscuit design has remained the same and is undoubtedly a golliwog.

I wonder if we have a different cultural perception of them. Our history is, after all, quite different to the histories of the UK and US.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/07/2018 01:18

And as for the oft-repeated claim that people know that they're 'wrong' by keeping things within their homes and/or not mentioning them in public, has it not occurred to people who trot this self-conviction rubbish out that people might actually be showing sensitivity to others? I eat meat. I love meat and am in no way ashamed of that fact. Would I approach somebody I know to be a vegan and eagerly show them everything that just bought from the butcher's? No - it's called tolerance and respect for differences in opinion.

Unfortunately, this respect is often a one-way street. Take Brexit for example. Slightly more than half of the eligible people who felt strongly enough about it one way or other to go and vote opted in favour of leaving the EU.

How many people openly speak about having voted this way in public (especially on TV/radio/social media)? Very few compared to the remainers. Is this because they now regret their choice or are ashamed of it? Maybe some of them are, but I don't think that the majority are. Some may regret their choice in hindsight and would possibly vote differently were the referendum re-run, but would most actually be ashamed?

However, people originally made that choice for many reasons - including wanting to regain national sovereignty; concern about healthcare being homogenised and the NHS being shut down; out-of-control bureaucracy; financial non-accountability; concerns about immigration, be they measured or slightly or fully racist.

But when the only acceptable 'right-on' way of thinking is to want to remain, and every Brexit voter is automatically denounced as both completely racist and undeniably very stupid indeed, with no right of reply, is it any wonder that many people simply find it less hassle to just keep their views and thoughts private?

Rebecca36 · 20/07/2018 01:21

Whilst I think it is appalling that your sister even thought of buying a golliwog for her son, there's not much you can do about it. You've registered your disapproval and now it's down to your sister. For all you know, other people may have said the same thing to her and she might get rid of the golly.

yorkshireyummymummy · 20/07/2018 01:26

Red dwarves.
Australia has - from what I saw when I lived there- the most awful problems with racism . I couldn’t believe the way the aborigines were treat by white people. I have lived in Africa and never felt ashamed of my colour - I did in Australia though.

Re Gollys.
My DD spotted one in a vintage shop. She was in her buggy. She hollered , cried and begged for one.
I bought him for her. I have used him as a tool from her being very young to explain to her about racism. She loves him . He has been an invaluable help after she saw awful racism in Australia. If you just use a golly as a toy is it really racist? I like the ‘ banana’ analogy a pp used - surely it’s racist if you use it in a racist / degenerateing manner. If he’s simply a loved toy where is the racism? Is Barbie racist too? Blonde, big tits, small waist, small brain (!?), clothes obsessed.............

MsPavlichenko · 20/07/2018 01:35

I am 53. My parents would bevin their seventies if alive. My grandparents were born a hundred years ago or so.

They all, and I knew what these toys represented and why they were and are offensive.

InionEile · 20/07/2018 01:53

I literally never, ever hear of golliwog dolls anywhere except here on Mumsnet. Is it just a popular topic with trolls on here to get reactions or do they really exist still? Where are they sold, if they do exist? I can't imagine any business that sells them surviving very long.

RedDwarves · 20/07/2018 02:00

yorkshire Can't be that bad, as it's one of the most multicultural countries in the world. I work with a Malaysian, Muslim lady from South Africa who moved seven months ago and said she's not experienced racism here like she did in SA.

But I wouldn't say SA "has the most awful problem with racism".

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/07/2018 02:09

InionEile They're mostly found in antique shops or specialist collector toy shops in small towns and in shops at seaside resorts. You're right that a most shops wouldn't sell them, whether because the owner/manager disagrees with them on principle or simply because they would fear reprisals from self-appointed virtue-signallers who can't accept that just because they don't like something, doesn't mean an automatic worldwide ban.

Run a shop in a city or reasonable-sized town selling things that many people find objectionable, such as cigarettes, alcohol, meat, high-sugar/energy drinks, knives, replica guns/swords, pornography etc., and you'll be fine. There will be many people who will find these items offensive and either not buy those particular items from your shop, or completely boycott your shop because you sell them, as they have every right to do.

However, have a large shelf full of soft toys which people can buy or just walk on past, one of which happens to be a golly, and you will never hear the end of it.

Pinkbedsheets · 20/07/2018 02:35

I’m a black woman and find these dolls very offensive and incredibly racist as everyone should. Even if a minority of black people are “okay” with them being sold, it doesn’t mean they are okay. They might have been a part of your childhood, they might have been cute but they’re a symbol of racism used to mock a black person. I’m sorry but anyone who simply thinks it’s okay to buy a racist doll for a child is ignorant.

MirriVan · 20/07/2018 06:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MirriVan · 20/07/2018 06:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2018 06:29

I can't be arsed to read the thread. Have we had the people who love their "gollies" because their dear old nan knitted them yet? Or the unaccountable influx of black people or people married to black people who love and collect them? Or any of the new breed, who say that if you even notice that a gollywogs is black it shows how racist you are?

MirriVan · 20/07/2018 06:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Monny1 · 20/07/2018 06:33

Thank you PinkbedSheets, l feel exactly the same way as you.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2018 06:45

Oh I forgot the "It's just a black dolly. It's good to have dollies of different colours" And the careful use of "golly" not "gollywog" as if that makes it better.

Ghanagirl · 20/07/2018 06:46

@Racecardriver
That’s a new one be racist in private, don’t think it works like that

Ghanagirl · 20/07/2018 06:52

I bought a golly doll about 3 or 4 years ago from a group of Black African women raising money for a girls school in Africa. I figured if they were happy to make and sell them I would happily buy one to help their fund-raising.
Really?

Ghanagirl · 20/07/2018 07:07

@Pinkbedsheets

I’m a black woman and find these dolls very offensive and incredibly racist as everyone should. Even if a minority of black people are “okay” with them being sold, it doesn’t mean they are okay. They might have been a part of your childhood, they might have been cute but they’re a symbol of racism used to mock a black person. I’m sorry but anyone who simply thinks it’s okay to buy a racist doll for a child is ignorant.
Couldn’t put it clearer than this, listen to the ones who are subjected to racism instead of spouting defensive nonsense!

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 20/07/2018 07:26

listen to the ones who are subjected to racism instead of spouting defensive nonsense!

THIS!

The fact that there are black people who grew up with them doesn't change the fact they are offensive to most!
Even the majority of people who loved the dolls growing up understand they are horrible.

DayManChampionOfTheSun · 20/07/2018 08:01

I dont like them however I appreciate someone from my mums generation having one if only toy left over from childhood. Most of us have 1 toy from when we were a child that we wouldn't want to lose (I rescued mine from exdp house after I remembered he was still there) but if it was a golly I would judge someone for having it on display, but not for owning it in these circumstances.

But I wouldn't buy one, nor would I accept one as a gift now.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2018 08:42

"I dont like them however I appreciate someone from my mums generation having one if only toy left over from childhood."
I do get irritated by this "oh, it's OK if old people are racist" thing. My mother explained why gollywogs are racist to me in the mid 60s.

Racecardriver · 20/07/2018 09:34

@Ghanagirl thinking that a golliwog isn't racists isn't being racist though is it? Thinking for yourself in private. For me, and many people, golliwog and similar objects have zero racial connotations. That duesbt mean that I go around calling people who find them racist names (as you have me) I respect that they make other people uncomfortable but I really can't bring myself to care. The point is that I respect the majority consensus in public so as not to offend anyone thus damaging my reputation but in private I really don't give a shit. Obviously when talking about things like goliwogs this position is very trivial but let's assume that the majority position is sonething more sinister than 'goliwogs are extremely racist' like nazism or communism. Teaching your children to have their own thoughts about little things means that they are less likely to buy into other people's shit when it is soneyhi g important.

Ghanagirl · 20/07/2018 11:40

@Racecardriver
Teaching your children to be kind and respectful to others feelings will probably make them better people but if it’s more important that they don’t give a shit carry onHmm

Racecardriver · 20/07/2018 11:52

@Ghanagirl teaching children that other people's feelings matter validates their own unreasonable feelings. We teach our children to behave well towards others for a variety of reasons such as for their own benefit, because it is rude to make people feel bad (rudeness is inexcusable), etc. But I don't teach my children that feelings are inherently important because it encourages them to indulge their own feelings which is a terrible way to live one's life. Obviously when you love soneone/have an obligation to someone and don't want to hurt their feelings for that reason that is different but feelings in general aren't important. The point of being an adult and having reason is being able to rise above your feelings to see things as they truly are. And golliwog are truly just toys. A toy cannot hurt you. Racism is bad, my chldren are vulnerable to it. There is silly racism like golliwog that only affect you if you let them. And then there is actual racism like discrimination in the work place, unfair treatment by police, restriction of civil rights, segregation etc. Feelings really aren't important but freedom of thought is.