Remainer 'moral superiority'

[coffeeaddict]

I voted Remain but I dithered and I can see both sides of the argument. (Am I the only one?! Everyone else seems to be so polarised.)

What gets me, especially when I've read discussions on here, is all the very vociferous Remainers who talk as though they have a claim to the moral high ground.

I find the accusation that Brexiteers are 'racist' particularly weird. Europe is mostly white like us. How does race play a card? If anything, letting our borders open to all and every European (majority white) means necessarily less room for other people from different countries and therefore different races.

In fact, what is the EU? A band of rich, predominantly white countries banding together to be more powerful. Fine, this might be best for our trade and prosperity. It might be pragmatic. We might like feeling we could go and live in Spain one day. But that's not the same as being morally 'better'.

But a lot of Remainers behave as though they are inherently 'virtuous' and Brexit is inherently 'evil.'

I don't get it.

Brexiteer: Fucking financial services can fuck off with their billions of tax contributions.

Also Brexiteer: WTF? Why is there no money anymore? I really thought the multi-millionaires Rees Mogg, Johnson, Davis and Farage understood and would bring a new age of prosperity.

"Heavy industry moving to Germany, there would still be place for it here. "

Heavy industry has NOT moved to Germany. The UK chose not to invest and to support its heavy industries, the Germans did. Name me one UK company that used to operate here and now operates out of Germany?

"only to then have Eastern Europeans come and take their trade jobs away, they have A VALID REASON for not wanting to be part of the wheel that continually stops their cog from turning. "

But they aren't doing that, there isn't enough of them to do so! There are huge swathes of the country which has tiny levels of EU immigration in it. You can FEEL like that, but it isn't factual.

Your concerns are not valid, nor is voting out of the EU to get the things you propose, that was never on the ballot.

Like a lot of leavers you have voted for your own special tailored version of leave that you won't get. Ever.

We are not going to see an increase in manufacturing. If we follow the Brexiteers way of doing things we will see less, same with agriculture, its all in the Economists for Britain paper.

I am reading what you are writing, its not valid, its a bunch of appeals to emotion.

It isn't pompous to critique someones point in a debate and not all opinions are equal, and we should not treat them as such.

I live in Manchester- sadly it's pro Brexit round here. They at least won something

" But they aren't doing that, there isn't enough of them to do so "

are you serious ? have you any idea how British workmen have been undercut by successive waves of immigrants from new EU countries?

how is this 'not valid'?

"are you serious ? have you any idea how British workmen have been undercut by successive waves of immigrants from new EU countries?"

London has 1 million EU immigrants. There are 3.in the workforce.

There are another 2 million or so divided up across the whole rest of the country, Most regions have less than 5% of the population that is EU immigrants, and only a fraction of them will be employed in trade.

So yes, some have been undercut, but it isn't the massive thing that you are making it out to be.

I rather feel that the there was a xenophobic element to the leave campaign, just look at the posters below. I am no fan of the EU, I see a lot of its problems (real problems not the lies peddled during the campaign) but this utter shambles of a negotiation is going to leave this country poorer. I find the blind faith of some Leavers against the mounting evidence equally mind-boggling.

I was a silent Leaver. I have lost count of the number of times I have sat in a conversation when “thick” Leavers have been lambasted. Usually I say nothing!

I’m highly educated and work in professional services. I have no doubt there are many like me. We were probably the ones that tipped the vote. The sneering and superior claims of higher intellect from some Remainers has left this country yet more divided

I voted Leave for many reasons. And yes, I am concerned about free movement of people within the EU. And no, I’m not racist.

The most racist people I know are Remainers!!

Its funny this, there seems to be soo many immigrants in so many areas. The ones that are living in HMOs working cash in hand and sending all their money home, whilst at the same time claiming benefits, and at the same time being in paid work so that they drive down wages for other workers AND using services like schools for their kids ( who live with them in HMOs whilst at the same time getting their child benefit sent home).

Kind of makes you think that the criticisms are based on bullshit.

"And yes, I am concerned about free movement of people within the EU."

What are your concerns?

Ummmm, you realise I’m not ‘a brexiteer’ I just actually listen to people rather than call them racists

Not valid = not living in London

" it isn't the massive thing that you are making it out to be."

well as there has never been a count of how many EU citizens are living here... it's kind of hard to make sweeping statements.

workmen have been undercut, there is no doubt. Maybe not as extensively as people like to make out, but just dismissing out of hand issues that skilled craftspeople might have as 'not valid', is just provocative tbh.

I find the blind faith of some Leavers against the mounting evidence equally mind-boggling.

It is. They're still: ooh clever David Davis will think of something, that Jacob Rees Mogg will get us a brilliant trade deal! Boris is intelligent, he will sort it out, he always does.

It's denial, I guess. I could understand it two years ago, but now?

EU immigrants are actually net contributors to the government by the tune of £20 billion

www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0

Would be interested to know how we can replace that money?

The UK has the right to require any EU citizen to get a job within three months of coming to the UK or asking them to leave. We have the right to restrict benefits of all kinds.

Successive governments failed to do so, but we blame the EU?

Could someone explain why?

Too much hassle/expense to implement

I don't feel morally superior, I'm just scared as fuck at what's happening to the country and I think the worst is yet to come.

Brexitier "I am very clever and I have lots of good reasons for voting leave"

Remainer "ok explain them and give us some facts to back them up"

Brexitier "you are calling me stupid and racist, I'm leaving this thread"

Again, and again, and again, and again.

Financial Services in the UK pay in the region of £70 billion in tax to the treasury. US, Swiss and Japanese banks base their European HQs here in order to access the EU markets, this in turns supports large numbers of high paying jobs in Law, Accountancy and other services.

Why will these companies base themselves in the UK after Brexit when the services they can offer in the EU will be restricted. And where will the money come from to replace the tax they paid?

Yet they implement it in other countires?

I didn't call you racist, nor have I done so anywhere here.

However, it is perfectly fine to say that arguments aren't valid.

Where are the wages being forced down, or trades people being under cut?

Not in The North East, which has less than 2% EU immigrants.

Not in Wales, where EU immigratns make up 3 % of population.

I could go on, and on. The highest amount of immigrants in the UK come from somewhere other than the EU, each year the non EU figure is bigger.

Why not be provocative? I'm so tired of having to listen to the same arguments being brought back again and again when the facts don't fit and never have done.

Tax that is used to help the working class.

I have a relative in financial services already told job will go as company moving out of UK.

It's not just in Financial Services.

The CAA does not have the staff or resources to certify aircraft and aerospace parts after Brexit. Thus Rolls Royce is already shifting jobs and work from British workers in the UK to Germany, so they can certify their Engines in Germany by EASA.

Many other firms will have to do the same thing. In pharmaceuticals, chemicals, dozens of industries

‘Why not be so provocative’ the most deliberately obtuse, unable to acknowledge anyone else’s perspective and highly provocative contributer says