They attacked Alison Moyet when she objected to being called a cis woman...

[loveyouradvice]

I find this astonishing ... I'm a huge fan of Alison Moyet's and she has been so supportive of the LGBT community....

You can identify as anything you want these days, except as a woman. Consider what happened to British singer Alison Moyet. Last week, on Twitter, she said she didn’t want to be known as a cis-woman, just as a woman. ‘I defend everyone’s right to have the pronoun that they choose and will honour it’, she diplomatically said. And ‘I do not choose Cis for mine’, she continued. ‘It took women like me long enough to own the title “woman” in the first place. It’s a long enough word for me.’ The response to this calm, clear, polite act of self-definition? Fury. And insult. And abuse. On such a voluble level that Moyet eventually recanted her linguistic heresy, deleted her tweet, and left Twitter."

Rest of article is here
spiked-online.com/newsite/article/trans-activism-is-now-just-misogyny-in-drag#.W0x7Ha2ZPNA

Moyet's response to being called cis was quite gentle. Yet she got attacked on twitter with a pile of hate tweets and eventually gave up after being assertive but not aggressive with comments like
"I will name you as you identify. Must you afford me less?"

How could they do this?

Does this actually mean I could walk into anywhere and self-identify as a man if I felt like it? That's frightening.

The world is going mad. That’s all I have to say. I worry about my daughter growing up in this.

I stand with Alison Moyet.

I understand Alison Moyet's reference, BettyDuMonde, I think she has always had to stand up for herself and who she is. Bloody amazing she is.

But I think their hatred and bizarre claims (men not finding them attractive is becuase they can’t have children, men prefer have sex with them, that they have periods) is driven by jealousy that they can’t be what they really want to be

I think its this in some cases. In some other cases its simply MRAs finding another way to attack women, but that they can pretend to be progressive now to do it.

I'm all for trans rights and all but one thing i've noticed... You see the term Cis Woman used often but never Cis Man or Cis Male. Why is that?

I used to be quite active in the LGBT community (I'm a bisexual who married a man and had kids, so I don't even mind being called a TERF - I betrayed the movement yeeears ago ) and even back in the day I used to wonder how the worlds of trans - where feelings of discomfort with your society-assigned gender were to be overcome with hormones and surgery - was supposed to fit in with the feminism of most lesbians, where gender was just some bullshit dreamed up to keep us contributing our labour to society for cheap or for free. But I figured we could coexist under the same banner if nobody pushed the comparison too hard. And it wasn't the feminists that pushed it (maybe Germaine Greer), and you notice it's rarely FTM transsexuals who push it either - it's MTFs the whole time. And I feel like, if they are so keen on the societally-assigned gender of woman, is there any chance they would conform to stereotype by shutting up and listening to our concerns and trying to build a consensus instead of demanding that their concerns take centre stage? If you're all women, why are you acting like stereotypical blokes?

I'm a woman, as well. Just a woman. Born a female, will die a female. I don't need anyone else to tell me what to call myself, thank you very much. I'm a big girl now.

None of the usual suspects (or even the random ploppers) feel like stepping in here to tel us all to calm down dear and/or its just a word and/or we're transphobic for objecting?

How odd.

Ahhh the irony and hypocrisy, so the TRAS want to be called what they wish, but stamp their feet when Alison Moyet wants to be called what she is at birth, a WOMAN, an adult Female. This is why biological women and Feminists are annoyed, TRAS want it their way, and want to have their cake and eat it.

Does this actually mean I could walk into anywhere and self-identify as a man if I felt like it?

I'm afraid not Lobster - on the rare occasion where trans-men have tried to join/compete with men in men-only environments, then they have been given a good hard elbow.

It appears that only trans-WMEN have any rights to access single-sex (female) only areas.

Strange, that.

Why stop at CIs? Let's also have words for non-elephant, non-robot, non-hamster. Let's introduce everyone by firstly stating what they're not.

It gave me the chills watching The Handmaid's Tale this week. One of the guards referred to one of the handmaid's as a non-woman.
We are slowly but surely heading the same way.
Forcing labels onto women that they do not want and do not need and then silencing them when they try to protest by screeching insults such as Transphobic at them.

It's shameful.
I can only hope that more and more women are waking up to this brainwashing nonsense and start speaking out against it. At the very least we should recognize propaganda when we see it.

They can fuck off. Men don't get to decide what women are called. Women get to decide that.

imwideawake apparently the Green Party has already decided there are two sexes. Men and Non-Men.

I'm all in favour of people having whatever gender identity they like, but the point is, it's not socially or politically important. Women are subjugated and controlled because of our reproductive role as a class, to provide the next generation of heirs and humans. Not because of our gender identity.

Biological sex and cultural gender identity should not be elided as concepts. They are discrete.

Cis means that I identify with the cultural bullshit roles, stereotypes and expectations that have come to be associated with my femaleness in this time & culture. I do not... therefore I am not cis, I am simply a woman.

Does this actually mean I could walk into anywhere and self-identify as a man if I felt like it? That's frightening.

Yes languid you could.

There’s a protest group called ManFriday who are, in a very peaceful and British manner, highlighting this. They identify as men on Fridays to highlight the issue.
For example they donned fluffy swimming hats and identified into Hampstead men’s pond. The police were called and they left of course, whilst chatting to the gents using the pond about why they were protesting. Men having been identifying into the ladies pond for a while now. Women who have objected have been told they are transphobic. Of course when men are inconvenienced it’s dofferent :/

There was also a linked protest where a woman in Scotland identified as a man to get access to a men’s youth hostel dorm. She was given access to form and showers.

The women doing this are not actually trying to take over these spaces by the way - they just want to highlight the absurdity of self ID. Self ID and changes to the GRA will remove single sex spaces and directly make women and children less safe - a lot of this impacts on child safeguarding too.

Alison Moyets remarks on Twitter were not inflammatory or anything o phobic - they way she was hounded over this shows how unpleasant this debate is for women who dare to stand up for the rights we have in law in the public sphere. It’s very worrying indeed. In 2018, simply saying ‘I am a woman’ on Twitter is enough to get you hounded off the platform.

If you're all women, why are you acting like stereotypical blokes?

Exactly. You don't get women threatening to 'burn you in a fire' or 'punch you in the face' if you don't agree with them.

LanguidLobster, indeed you could identify as a man if you wanted to, but there's an interesting exception in law here.

If an aristocrat has two children, say, first a daughter and then a son, the title passes to the son because males take priority over females for these purposes. If the daughter got a Gender Recognition Certificate, henceforth the aristocrat would have two sons for all purposes except passing on his title. The House of Lords saw to that. The biological son would still get it. I think that tells you all you need to know about how sincerely our Parliament believes that a person can change sex.

As for other instances of women self-IDing as men, look out for the ManFriday campaign started here on Mumsnet. They got a lot of coverage for their trip to the Hampstead Heath men's swimming pond. Po-faced report of this from the Independent here, as a lot of people won't click on a Daily Mail link, but for those who would do that, the DM's coverage was a lot more sympathetic. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/man-friday-hampstead-heath-protest-transphobic-lgbt-rights-a8374651.html

If you're all women, why are you acting like stereotypical blokes?

And this is what it all boils down to.

I think the male drive to keep females under control, be monitored, have our spaces policed and invaded by men and our behaviour manipulated to fit in with male demands and expectations is strong - the Tra behaviour is just an extension of this. It happened in Ancient Rome where the eunuchs exerted a great deal of misogynistic control over the women.

There must be some sort of innate urge to do this because cocks do it with hens. It’s great that some men haven’t progressed beyond that of a domestic chicken 😂 we can continue outwitting them 😉

Cis, pronounced 'siz'. Latin, means 'on this side of...' I know cis and trans from organic chemistry at school, I hated it.

In my mind, CIS = Completely Idiotic Stereotyping.

Because anyone who believes in ladybrain and a innate adoration of pink and fluffy and sparkly is clearly an idiot.

Iwouldliketostopfeelingsicknow that's exactly what I was thinking. How did we get to three pages before it was brought up? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say. Maybe if people started insisting on cis man and cis male, someone who actually gets listened to (clearly not women) would realise how absolutely stupid it is and put an end to it.

Why don't those transitioning have a stupid name instead? Oh wait, they do, trans. But have rejected it and decided to label actual women instead.

I also stand with Alison Moyet - and her amazing singing voice.

CIS = c**t in situ - a real one that has periods, thrush, secretions, prolapses, episiotomies, babies, ivf and smear tests 😀

It’s great that some men haven’t progressed beyond that of a domestic chicken

Bit sad as well really. Best to continue treating them with the contempt they deserve.