to not understand how I could possibly be perceived as racist?

[MissFranklin]

First mn post but have been an avid reader for a while now.

Me and DP are expecting our first baby. Was at work last week discussing what our child might look like with a colleague. It was a very interesting conversation as I am mixed race (Caucasian and Afro-Caribbean) and DP is white. I have dark Afro hair, green eyes and fairly dark brown skin. DP has dead straight, blonde hair, blue eyes and very pale skin. I find it interesting thinking about what our child may look like (I'm sure the majority of parents to be wonder about this at some point during their pregnancies).

Apparently, a colleague of mine was offended by this conversation. Felt that I was focussing on the race of my child too much and what he/she will look like, and didn't seem at all interested in whether my baby was healthy (this is not the case, of course that is the most important thing to me and I've actually had a very complicated pregnancy, I just don't discuss it with my colleagues). Apparently I was being racist in saying that when a person has a mixture of races they are often interesting looking and it's hard to pin down where their heritage stems from. Now the only comment other than the above that I made about race, was that it's interesting that our child could look white, black, or somewhere in between and that I'm just really curious to know. I thought this was a fairly obvious remark. It was a really brief conversation and didn't really progress from what I've said above. I think I ended it with 'I don't care what my baby looks like as they'll be beautiful to me regardless'.

Now I'm not usually one to confront about things like this as I'm quite thick skinned and am not usually bothered, but I'm not happy with being called racist and would be furious if I was referred to as that again (I feel pretty furious as it is). The person who told me this has asked that I don't say anything, which I never understand - why tell me if I can't respond to it?

AIBU to think I really need to speak to this person face to face as I am so confused as to how I could possibly have offended her? I am no racist and have no idea how to approach her about this. Am I overreacting?

Be vary wary of 3rd hand gossip.

The colleague who told you this could have an axe to grind with you, the other colleague that supposedly said this or both of you, and stirring the pot.

My tuppence worth is, yes, I think most if not all, parents wonder how their children will look, and part of that will include what part heritage has to play.

Eg my dd barely looks like me at all! I'm very fair, burn very easily, light brown eyes, auburn straight fine hair, short, apple shaped (fat!), small nose, chin & ears, thinnish lips, round eyes. Typical Scot.

Dd takes after her father who is tall, slim (burgeoning middle aged spread beer belly notwithstanding), dark olive skin, very dark brown almond shaped eyes, black thick curly hair, Roman nose, prominent chin (both have same misaligned jaw giving the impression of an overbite), high cheekbones, good sized ears.

I somehow got into my head, without consciously thinking I had, that she'd look like me at birth, I was blonde, blue eyed, so pale I looked a bit blue!

Instead she was so dark she honestly was darker than a friends child born around same time who was the child of 2 parents of middle eastern heritage, her eyes were so dark they looked black it was hard to tell between pupil & iris, and she had a shock of black, curly hair.

Even as she's grown, while her skin has lightened a little she's very dark at the moment due to the hot sunny weather, her hair is now very long so the weight has removed some of the curl, but it still goes quite frizzy in certain conditions and she straightens it most days, curls unfortunately not currently being fashionable (if it were the 80's she'd be saving a fortune in perms).

I think it's probably likely somewhere in my ex's heritage is middle eastern or maybe even Asian or African ancestors. We know there was a great grandmother from southern Mediterranean area but we don't know any more than that. I don't think it's my side as we're all at darkest light brunette, with creamy skin being mostly scots/Irish heritage, lot of blonde & blue eyed folk though so we think probably some Scandinavian genes in there somewhere. So maybe dd will be the one to get a shock when she produces an ice white, blonde, blue eyed child.

I remember years ago watching an American 'talk show' of the Jerry sprinter/Oprah type but was a black man presented it can't remember his name. On one particular show there was a guy from a couple had dragged his wife on to do a dna test because he didn't believe their 2nd child was his - because the child had pale skin and blonde hair. He was a very dark Afro-Caribbean man, his wife was also Afro-Caribbean but not as dark. Aside from colour the child was the absolute SPIT of him inc a small birthmark. The dna test confirmed it was his child and his wife quite rightly demanded an apology for many months of accusation and hurt. The presenter was like 'you're an idiot!' And questioned did he understand how genetics worked, did he know that quite a few African-Americans had Caucasian ancestors? And then as a sort of 'extra' revealed that they'd tested his dna for heritage indicators AND traced some of his genealogy which revealed iirc a Caucasian I think great great grandfather on HIS side. On his wife's they'd actually had to go further back to locate the Caucasian ancestors. But genes can do weird and wonderful things.

My Dn (sisters child) looks nothing like either parent, but weirdly a lot like me with hints of his fathers brothers features. So that looks wise he looks like mine and my sisters-exs-brothers kid!

My sister looks like my fathers sister and mums brother combined.

mistress where did I say those who aren't mixed race aren't interesting? You assumed that. I didn't go on and on about anything, it was a very brief conversation. You sound quite angry and like you've completely misinterpreted my post, likely similarly to my colleague.

Should we not have conversation for fear that ignorant people may hear?

God forbid your baby should be a throwback to your African ancestry... why? What would the issue be here? Other than you assuming that this would be perceived as a bad thing in my mind? (It wouldn't).

Your colleague is being a tit.
Everyone wonders what their kid will look like - just more so if it’s a child of mixed heritage!
I’m white, DH is Asian. Even our midwife said that in her experience an white/asian mix is the hardest to predict what characteristics the baby might have. Some look completely Caucasian, some look completely asian, some are a clear mix - it’s like your genes go into the lottery machine, get all mixed up and the baby is the most exciting thunder ball ever
Turns out my kids have brown hair, with a Caucasian texture, but have very asian features and skin tone - I’m obviously biased, but they are beautiful and people often ask about their heritage. Are those people racist? No. They are curious, as my kids don’t look like their predominantly white friends.
No matter how people want to spin it - everyone notices what race another person is whether they hold racist views or not.
Sounds like your colleague was offended at the prospect of offending others - which is ridiculous.

mistress she said you sound angry

OP, that comment alone shows you're not very sensitive to the struggles of your average black woman. Your colleague now has my sympathy, even though I still don't believe you're racist. Maybe just unfortunately ignorant.

jay I am absolutely sensitive to it, but being told that I can't talk about my heritage and to simply say that SOME mixed race people look interesting simply because people are interested in their heritage (this is factual) because I may upset a black person is defeating the object.

To say tell me god forbid my child might be a throw back is in my eyes offensive and presuming that I would have an issue with this.

It's ridiculous to think that we cannot talk about being mixed race and how two people from entirely different backgrounds might produce a child which people may be interested to know their heritage in case someone who thinks mixed race people are a 'super race' hears.

I am sensitive to certain struggles, I strongly disagree with censoring my non-racist/offensive comments in order to not offend someone who may perceive it differently.

I actually think, as the mother of mixed children, it’s more racist to make being mixed race something we can’t talk about, almost like it’s embarassing or wrong. Being mixed is as awesome as being any other race.

What I mean by that is all races have beautiful and interesting looking people, and being mixed race should be able to be talked about positively just like all the others.

princess exactly and this is my point. I'm now being told that I'm insensitive because I'm against the idea of talking about my own experience an heritage.

OP you sound angry.

Also, mixed people tend to have more “diversity” in that you can have an idea what an “average” white or black or Indian person could look like (obviously exceptions) but every mixed person looks so individual that it’s completely normal to find that interesting.

I think your colleague may be projecting her own issues, but we shouldn’t have to not talk about our kids because of it. My son is beautiful and part of that is his Asian and white heritage.

There's always someone only too keen to be offended by everything. As someone on here said, just virtue signalling!

jay I'm really not. It do think it's laughable however that when I voice my opinion about disagreeing with censoring my opinion, how I can't talk about mixed race heritage in a positive light because someone who is not mixed race may think I am inferring a super-race I'm the one being unreasonable. The sensitivities of one race shouldn't ever supersede the sensitivities of another. This is the type of thing that makes people feel like they cannot talk about race at all.

Perhaps your colleague took you to mean that your mixed race background made more attractive babies than her black background. It does sound as though you might have been even if unintentionally.

Ghoul not at all. As I stated before I hope it was not interpreted that way however after replaying the brief conversation in my head I'm struggling to see how any fairly clever person would perceive it that way!

I’d speak to your colleague and ask her ask her what it was that upset her. If she a point then your sorry and that was not your intention. The important thing here is to have a positive ongoing relationship.

So only you can get offended? And then when a black woman tells you how she perceives the situation, she's dismissed as angry?

And why wouldn't she be, when mixing races is 'interesting' but a Jamaican and Ghanian is just another black baby. Doesn't matter if you agree or not, thats what the voice of the world says about our children.

I’ve read both of your threads OP. I think your words are being manipulated a bit here and that you’re actually being shut down. A black woman (which I also happened to be) told you to be quiet, that you shouldn’t be talking about a mixed race person possibly looking interesting (my children are mixed race and spark a lot of interest, it doesn’t bother me, but does prove that people are interested in their heritage, which I guess is one example of being ‘interesting’) and you are being told that this may be interpreted as you implying that your children will be of a super-race? I can’t agree with this. I think this is really quite damaging and as OP said, the sensitivities of a black woman are now appearing to be more important than those of someone who is mixed black and caucasian for example. I think this ties rather nicely in to your other thread, as I can see a hint of some of your concerns in a couple of the previous posts!

OP I think you just need to speak to her. I don’t think you said anything wrong and from what I can tell, you certainly shouldn’t have cause any offence. If you did, you need to find out why and rectify it.

Jay, I have read mistress post and think it is very accusatory and yes, quite angry.

Is your colleague not mixed race at all then? She is fully ethnically Nigerian? I wonder if she perceives a racial pecking order, where NOT being mixed race is preferable coupled with her frustration at a world where dark-skinned black women look around them and see light skinned women being preferred (like in pop music where dark skinned black women are... where?) and mixed race children are to be desired - you've probably been following this in Love Island where Samira was rejected but Josh & Wes "would make gorgeous babies".

So her train of thought could be that you are mixed race ("half caste") and advantaged over her by society because of your lighter skin -> her wrongly perceiving you as "celebrating" the likelihood of an even "less black" baby -> you are being racist against your own skin colour.

If that is her angle - and obvious I'm reading a whole bunch of stuff into a reported comment! - you should definitely speak to her. After all, maybe the colleague who told you in the first place is just stirring and nothing was said at all.

Astound I believe she is Nigerian and Ghanaian but not entirely sure so can't say that confidently. Based on this thread I think this may have been interpreted in this sense, and will be mortified if I find out that someone thinks I am of this chain of thought, so will be putting it right this morning!

If you speak to her please point out that "half-caste" is pretty appalling.
That coupled with what she said about you makes me think she's got a problem with mixed race people.

Jay of course people are allowed to be offended but in this case mistress is offended by something I didn't actually say. I never said that non mixed race people weren't interesting, implying that people thought I was referring to a super-race based on me simply saying that SOME mixed race people spark an interest, said that I was 'going on about' skin colour when in reality I had a brief 2 minute conversation about it, presumed that I would see it is a bad thing that my baby was a throw back to my African heritage (which implies that I am in fact racist - yes, that's offensive), stating that I was after a thread of white women in order to validate my post. I interpreted this as angry, offensive and just not accurate. I DO understand however that what I said may have been interpreted in a way which it was not means and I absolutely take that on board.

Missfranlklin your last post is exactly what I was trying to say. Please do just speak to her as you don’t want your name slandered across the office! If it hasn’t been already

She sounds like one of the perpetually offended and a champion virtue signaller. She probably spends her time marching and has lots of wristbands.

velocity when I read Mistress' post wanted to shout hear hear. OP needs to be challenged from all corners, not just the white corner, or even the agreeable black corner. I'm really going to step out and support what she said because from where I'm standing, she's talking her truth.

Missfranklin if your colleague is West African I can see how she interpreted your comment. If your colleague were my niece, i would understand her grievance. It's not up to you to apologise, it's not your fault. I have a lot of West African women around me and I can truly say there are real issues of colorism prevalent today. Within and out of the black community. I'm angry for them, for us.

I'm black but look mixed, I choose not to pretend the 'mixed race' debate doesn't involve me or my family. When I talk about my son, I do choose my words. But I don't get offended when others choose not to. The 'super race' comment is loaded but can't you see why it was said. Do you want to understand, or do you just want to be offended?

You didn't speak what someone else heard. Nothing new.