To be seriously irritated by this stay at home dad?

[Ary2017]

Ok so I read this article:
www.bbc.com/news/stories-44718727
It's a stay at home dad complaining about the sexism he receives on a daily basis. AIBU to be super irritated by this

1. He finds the help he gets offered at a baby group when he can't console his 6 month old 'condescending'.

Being a new parent is hard for everyone but we go to these groups not just for the sake of our babies but for mutual support! And if we see someone in the group struggling with whatever problem we rally round! He's not special because he's a man! We do it for everyone. These are safe spaces where new parents (mainly mums) can feel comfortable to express the problems they face. Mums have been through much more than any man can have been through. Literally physically torn open and dealing with healing and coming to terms with a body we no longer recognise. Emotionally torn apart too with the baby blues and potential of PND. These groups are where we can openly talk about our most vulnerable parts and emotions and not be judged and everyone understands and supports. I've never had a negative experience at a baby group, how dare he accuse these women of sexism when they just wanted to help!

1. He's offended by people in public offering him unwanted advice and again thinks this is sexist because he's a man. Please. Again, you are not getting special treatment because you are a man, We ALL deal with this. For some reason strangers think they have some ownership over random babies in the street. Especially the older generation who did things quite differently it seems. Yes it's irritating but we just come to terms with it! We learn to not be upset by these busy bodies and become confident in the job we are doing.

1. 'Mothers I've met have asked if I am somehow the "mummy"' ok, terrible choice of language however it's not unreasonable to assume that a baby has a 'primary carer', in fact it's quite important that they do.

1. He finds the lyrics to nursery rhymes in the music group sexist against men. Again, you are not special here. Most nursery rhymes are ancient and have gender specific language that is sexist towards both men and women. I've found most music groups change or avoid the gender stereotype language.

1. He's finds the fact that most baby groups are tailored towards mums offensive- well yes of course because mums are massively in the majority as the primary carer.

1. He's found being a new parent 'lonely and exhausting'. Um yes, that's normal.

Sorry but a lot of the support at the beginning of parenting is geared towards mums because they have gone through pregnancy, birth, and we are just at the beginning of a long journey of healing physically and emotionally. We need this.

Apart from number 5 I think YABVU

This is his experience that you seem to be dismissing. My DH and my eldest DS have experience a fair bit of what this guy has said.

And as for number 6, well you don't sound very supportive or understanding.

Would you say "Um yes, that's normal." If a new mother had said she found it lonely and exhausting?

Double standards.

I don't think the other mothers would have told a woman 'perhaps I should hold the baby for you.'

YABU.

But it can be lonely and exhausting for women as well!

Hmmm my husband would probably agree with most of these... he also has a major complaint about the lack of baby change in men's toilets and in quite a few places the changing has been in the ladies loos rather than disabled so he's been stuck, I should point out my husband has serious medical conditions so when the kids were younger often needed the changing units to change them. My husband has also been chased down the street by a waitress in a Wetherspoons type pub for taking our daughters into the gents. Quite often he has been the only dad at parent groups some of which he was welcomed at and some he didn't go back to because he felt the parents were very patronising towards him but then again I've had the same happen.

Hmm, a bit mixed in this one, because i think a lot of what he experienced might happen to a woman as well, but he is thinking it's cos he's a man.

I used to get fed up with people telling you things when baby was crying and suggesting they need fed, or even one time the sling was hurting them! It happens to us all not just dads.

But maybe he doesn't realise that.

So you are dismissing his experience as rubbish then?

My brother was the stay at home parent.

He stopped going to parent and baby groups because he was fed up of being aggressively asked things like 'do you do all the housework?' 'so you cook do you?' 'and do the shopping?' etc etc.

He found some of the Mums very rude and felt unwelcome at the groups. He felt that they were trying to catch him out to 'prove' that he wasn't doing as good a job as they were.

Again this is just his experience, other stay at home Dads may feel differently.

So I think YABU and also you sound extremely angry. Maybe take a step back and chill out a little!

He's entitled to his opinion. There are plenty of women returning to more traditional "male" work environments after having a baby who feel very similarly. Would you dismiss their feelings so quickly? Just because women give birth it doesn't mean they have monopoly on what is said and done in baby groups. These places should be less cliquey overall, I hated them all.

Attitudes need to change clearly.
Will take time.

Baby groups I've been to have been horrendously sexist towards men, and whilst receiving 'advice' is universal, it doesn't normally include suggesting changing a nappy, or that someone else should hold the baby.

If he said everything was fine, it wouldn't have made for a story worth publishing, would it?

He has his experiences (possibly a little exaggerated for story purposes) and you have your experiences.
Both are valid. His doesn't diminish yours in any way.

It is still unusual for the man to be the stay at home parent of a small baby and lots of people probably are judgemental of him and the baby's mother for this. Not everyone but it's not hard to imagine that quite a lot do.

Again, this is not the same as having laboured, had stitches, had pND etc - but it is not a competition

I agree with OP. Things are pretty shit for all new parents. His experience isn’t worse because he is a man. Baby groups are more tailored to women, I’ll take that point. But I’ll balance it out by assuming he had 9 months of feeling normal before the birth, doesn’t have hormones, breastfeeding or stictches to contend with. So in the end I’d say it’s a pretty even playing field for all. Nursery rhymes are sexist, as is 90% of every book and film ever made. He’s never noticed before? Funny that.

Meh. Man in privileged position experiences a tiny bit of what it’s like to have slightly less priviledge. Throws toys out of pram as a result.

But it can be lonely and exhausting for women as well!

Of course it can!

It's only the OP who seems to be turning it into some sort of competition.

I think the op is saying the experience is lonely and exhausting full stop. It’s not lonely and exhausting just for him, just because it’s sexist. She’s not denying his feelings. She disagrees that his feeling are because of sexism.

YANBU. The problem is that he thinks these things are happening because he's a man, but they're not. So it's not sexism, even if he feels it is.

I might not agree with all his points, but on the whole, he's right. Being a SAHD or a single dad is a lot harder.

Baby groups are sexists. I have even seen FB "parent group" very strongly refusing any men because the women want to stay between themselves.

I remember DH being given filthy look when daring to come with me at a baby clinic! Fair enough you wouldn't expect men in a breastfeeding support group, and might be uncomfortable if partners were there, but there's no reason why baby related matters should be female-only, but some silly women like to think they are.

I'm not angry and certainly don't think he shouldn't get support. I would obviously support any new parent. I totally understand the loneliness and exhaustion!
I just don't think he's any different, particularly not different enough to get an article on the bbc!

Maybe I'm just fiercely protective of women knowing what they have been though/ could be going through

I think you're kind of proving his point by dismissing his experiences. Yes, some of it will be experienced by women too. However, it's not unreasonable to believe that he gets treated differently. Men are not usually the primary carer - I wouldnt be suprised if he was treated unfairly or written suspicion, and it's not right.

If a woman moaned about people offering her unsolicited advice, or how exhausted she is, would you be so dismissive and snide towards her?

I noticed that story was on the front of the BBC website at the same time as the story about the BBC gender pay gap, so I couldn't summon up the motivation to read it..

@WorraLiberty I'm not saying it's a competition, I'm saying we all, or a lot of us feel this. Ie nothing to do with being male or female

It's always difficult to do something that's different to the way the majority do things. I think that there must be specific difficulties to being a sah father that a sah mother will not experience.

Maybe I'm just fiercely protective of women knowing what they have been though/ could be going through

This is the problem. We shouldn't let our (women's) oppression blind our judgement of other people's problems. Particularly when women might be the perpetrators. It's apples and oranges. We can have problems and tackle them, while allowing others to talk about theirs. I think if we want to progress, we need to listen to other groups and be reflective.

@Dommina I'm not dismissing his experience. In general I'm saying yes I agree but it's not to do with him being a man! Women deal with this all the time and if they complain about it I certainly wouldn't be dismissive, as support any way I could.

But if a woman complained about experiences of being a new mum she wouldn't get front page of the bbc!

When I had a newborn 14 years ago there were no baby groups in my area tailored for women.
I think the article is based on his own neurosis. He expected people to react in a certain way so saw it. Except for using a surrogate, the hate I've seen on mn was shocking.