To be seriously irritated by this stay at home dad?

[Ary2017]

Ok so I read this article:
www.bbc.com/news/stories-44718727
It's a stay at home dad complaining about the sexism he receives on a daily basis. AIBU to be super irritated by this

1. He finds the help he gets offered at a baby group when he can't console his 6 month old 'condescending'.

Being a new parent is hard for everyone but we go to these groups not just for the sake of our babies but for mutual support! And if we see someone in the group struggling with whatever problem we rally round! He's not special because he's a man! We do it for everyone. These are safe spaces where new parents (mainly mums) can feel comfortable to express the problems they face. Mums have been through much more than any man can have been through. Literally physically torn open and dealing with healing and coming to terms with a body we no longer recognise. Emotionally torn apart too with the baby blues and potential of PND. These groups are where we can openly talk about our most vulnerable parts and emotions and not be judged and everyone understands and supports. I've never had a negative experience at a baby group, how dare he accuse these women of sexism when they just wanted to help!

1. He's offended by people in public offering him unwanted advice and again thinks this is sexist because he's a man. Please. Again, you are not getting special treatment because you are a man, We ALL deal with this. For some reason strangers think they have some ownership over random babies in the street. Especially the older generation who did things quite differently it seems. Yes it's irritating but we just come to terms with it! We learn to not be upset by these busy bodies and become confident in the job we are doing.

1. 'Mothers I've met have asked if I am somehow the "mummy"' ok, terrible choice of language however it's not unreasonable to assume that a baby has a 'primary carer', in fact it's quite important that they do.

1. He finds the lyrics to nursery rhymes in the music group sexist against men. Again, you are not special here. Most nursery rhymes are ancient and have gender specific language that is sexist towards both men and women. I've found most music groups change or avoid the gender stereotype language.

1. He's finds the fact that most baby groups are tailored towards mums offensive- well yes of course because mums are massively in the majority as the primary carer.

1. He's found being a new parent 'lonely and exhausting'. Um yes, that's normal.

Sorry but a lot of the support at the beginning of parenting is geared towards mums because they have gone through pregnancy, birth, and we are just at the beginning of a long journey of healing physically and emotionally. We need this.

I also can't stand it when incredibly privileged white middle class women who have had every advantage in life dismiss the genuine disadvantages of others because they happen to be men. It really is irrational in the extreme.

YABU. For one thing, you're dismissive of the struggles (like loneliness) he describes that you previously said you would offer support to women for so that's a double standard. For another, unless you attended his specific baby group you can't possible just dismiss his experiences out of hand. How would you know what it has been like for him?

Women find it incredibly frustrating and depressing when men minimise the experiences they have with sexism, and when we are told that we are seeing sexism where it doesn't exist. So why are you doing exactly that to this man?

Male primary carers are still quite rare as you said yourself. That's why there is an article about it. And isn't that good! Won't this help other men feel less isolated and alone? Why are you so begrudging of that?

Honestly your whole post reads like you think babies and childcare are women's business and that men should shut up and not voice their experiences of it. That's a damaging attitude to men AND women.

I saw a post on Facebook saying a stay at home dad really annoyed this guy so the guy woke up early on a weekend and taught the stay at home dad's kids how to ride a bike cause he can never get that back.. made me laugh 😂😂😂

DH snorted over that article. He and I both went part-time, rather than using childcare, and he's observed that he gets a lot of credit when he's out and about with our baby, whereas I pretty much get ignored.
Parenting a hard for everyone and the sooner fathers and mothers are given equal credit for looking after their own children the better.

I don't understand your 'protective of women' point at all. It doesn't justify dismissing the legitimate experiences of another parent, which is what you are doing without doubt.

My husband would agree with many of these points so I'm glad it's been put out there for people to talk about.

You are being very unreasonable and quite nasty about another struggling parent.

I went to a baby group where a SAHD came and was accepted. But he was a very easy going, chatty man who wasn't fazed by talk of leaky boobs and birth stories (he used to volunteer his wife's experience, which helped him integrate though presumably she didn't know he was discussing her in the group!)

I think women naturally congregate together in the months after giving birth. You've all been through a traumatic change and most have physical injuries from it. A man's experience is different.

I wonder if some of the women in question were projecting their resentment with their husbands onto him simply because he was male. That's wrong of course but new motherhood is a time of intense emotions and hormonal surges. Baby groups are traditionally a safe space for women.

I read this article a few days ago.
Tbh a lot of what he talks about happens to women too. Especially strangers telling you how to look after your child and tutting. Feeling like you are doing a terrible job and being made to feel like shit by HV.
Some of it I honestly think is only news because a man was shocked by how shite parenting can be.
I would not try to deny that some of it was undoubtedly sexist and homophobic.
The problem is until more men do this role nothing will change

"Are you the mummy?" is so homophobic, seriously. And "Maybe I should hold the baby?" What, your womanly ways are magically better for even a stranger's baby? Jeez.

I read this a few days ago and had the same reaction as the OP. I thought it was hilarious that he thinks women aren't constantly being told how to parent by strangers.

Also have no sympathy for someone whinging about sexism when they rented a womb to have a baby.

I don't think this is about setting men against women.

It is obviously true that traditional expectations of gender roles still exist. A SAHD feels odd to a lot of people, both men and women. His experience is just a reflection of that, even if he is reading into some things a bit too much.

"Are you the mummy?" is so homophobic, seriously.

Either that or a very shaky grasp of biology . Or perhaps they were thinking of a FTM transition (of which there have been a few involving reproduction in the bio woman over the last couple of years).

Also have no sympathy for someone whinging about sexism when they rented a womb to have a baby

Presumably you are similarly generous of spirit to heterosexual couples “renting wombs”, and also people of whatever situation sourcing eggs/sperm/embryos as their only way of having a baby?

You're proving his well based point by excluding him from your experience.

And yes, woman complain about being new mothers and god yes, it get attention in the media. Plus there's books about it, celebrities talking about it, it is everywhere.

You're excluding someone and insisting that your challenges are superior to someone else's. That's unpleasant.

Presumably you are similarly generous of spirit to heterosexual couples “renting wombs”, and also people of whatever situation sourcing eggs/sperm/embryos as their only way of having a baby?

I would say the same about any couple using a surrogate.

MN is so aggressively anti surrogates. It's so strange.

I think he has a point regarding attitudes to fatherhood.
My friend gets really annoyed when people make a fuss about how much he 'helps with the children'. His reply is always, I don't 'help'. I am their Dad. I parent my children. He also complains about baby change being in the women's toilets because obviously no dad could take children out alone.

Some of his experience does seem to be rooted in sexist attiudes to parenthood.

Others (like unsolicited advice) are for everyone.

Only some very vile people who have nothing else going for them in their own lives and feel threatened @wellBeehivedWoman

It's ugly and best ignored I find!

Interesting set of responses, thanks.
I can totally see how being a SAHD has its challenges, I think maybe the tone and choice of examples in this article got my back up.

His issues in the most are things that all new parents face. The judgement and the unsolicited advice are not specifically for him as a male.
I was in the supermarket yesterday with my crying (teething) baby and a random man told me 'he need some toys', I just smile and nod- it's normal.
And I've lost count of the number of times I've been told 'why don't you just give him a bottle?' When I'm breastfeeding.

This piece, like many 'comment' pieces to be fair, just seems self indulgent.

If he talked about the lack of changing facilities in men's toilets I'd be on board with that, it's terrible!
And where he mentions the woman in the cafe saying two men can't look after a baby, I obviously agree that that is a horrible, hurtful and homophobic thing to say and he should not have to experience that

MN is so aggressively anti surrogates. It's so strange.

Yup... They seem to equate it with child abuse and absolutely will not hear any counter-arguments that actually children born to surrogates do not grow up emotionally damaged and broken. I don't agree with this stance at all- families come in all shapes and sizes and biological essentialism helps nobody.

Plus there's books about it, celebrities talking about it, it is everywhere.
Alex Jones, Holly Willoughby etc. etc.

I think he raises some genuine issues, which my DH has some of the concerns about (especially the groups aspect) as I will be going back to work full-time after 9 months and he will become the stay at home parent.
Some aspects are very female orientated especially when you compare it to Scandinavia where dad's have can take 3 months dad leave (paid) and its more acceptable to see a dad with his baby through the week.
I know that we will be lucky as actually he has 2 other friends who are stay at home Dads but I do think society could do more to break down the barriers.

Some of the issues he is talking about have nothing to do with him being a man. The giving unsolicited advice is unfortunately very common.

I find it very interesting he is finding the nursery rhymes sexists. What about books that always portrayed policemen and firemen being men and nurses always being women??
Or where the main character that is saving the day is always a man?
Does he find them sexist too?

Baby groups taylored towards women... well they are tailored towards their main customers and yes they are women (even though I have to say I’m struggling to see how a man would have any issue at a playgroup, bar the fact they will be surrounded by women).

Basically, yes a MAN has made a huge discovery. The world of parenting young children is sexist.
What he hasn’t realised is that if HE find it sexist (in a negative way towards him), then by default women will find the whole thing very sexist too.
I want to say nothing new there. What is new is a MAN realising this is the case - and of course, suddenly, it’s becoming an issue

twiglet what your DH is expressing though is the fact there are a lots women there (is that really a surprise?). And the fact the british society is so divided around sex (men staying with men, women staying with women when they socialise for example) that he is finding himself uneasy. Hence how important it is for him to have other men around to ‘support him’.

Whilst I understand where he is coming from, I’m finding very uncomfortable tbh. Why is it an issue for men and women to spend time together and find things to talk about when the main reason for them to be there are their children. Does it matter which sex you are when you are talking about sleep issues and pooey nappies?
Does it matter when you are talking about being isolated and bored (NEWS!! Women too feel isolated and bored)

Which actually means that change needs o come from both sides. Not just fathers actually taking time off and be a SAHP but also starting to realise that the issue they experience isn’t just about them. It’s abiut being a SAHP (regardless of the sex).
And it’s time for women to realise that men can be just as able than women to look after their dc. The issue of course is that it means that their own DH are actually totally able to look after their own kids (rather than helping etc..). Accepting that your DP is actually a useless twat that is trying to get away with murder isn’t nice either.... (esp when it stares at you in the face)

I think the tone of his article is what's wrong - it's not going to help anyone in any positive way. It's a bit 'me me me' and 'aren't I a huge victim', and not very nice about people who were seemingly trying to help him, however clumsily. It actually comes across as quite misogynistic - assuming that a woman suggesting he change his child's nappy is being sexist rather than just clumsily trying to help. People suggested I do stuff like that too when I had a newborn.

He's failed to think about things from a woman's perspective (or show any empathy for that) or apply any critical thinking for which of his challenges are universal new parent stuff and which are specific to being a man. Or propose what could be done to make things better - like more changing facilities in the mens - I think pretty much everyone could get on board with that.

It seems to me he's displaying a little the 12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

The tone of the article seems to set things up as a competition between men and women over who is the most victimised. This does not help anyone, especially not the children involved, and also conveniently allows the institutions / social norms which perpetuate negative early parenthood experiences off the hook.

OP I agree with you completely. Women experience everything he complains about, we just don’t have to be centred the way all too many blokes do.