To be seriously irritated by this stay at home dad?

[Ary2017]

Ok so I read this article:
www.bbc.com/news/stories-44718727
It's a stay at home dad complaining about the sexism he receives on a daily basis. AIBU to be super irritated by this

1. He finds the help he gets offered at a baby group when he can't console his 6 month old 'condescending'.

Being a new parent is hard for everyone but we go to these groups not just for the sake of our babies but for mutual support! And if we see someone in the group struggling with whatever problem we rally round! He's not special because he's a man! We do it for everyone. These are safe spaces where new parents (mainly mums) can feel comfortable to express the problems they face. Mums have been through much more than any man can have been through. Literally physically torn open and dealing with healing and coming to terms with a body we no longer recognise. Emotionally torn apart too with the baby blues and potential of PND. These groups are where we can openly talk about our most vulnerable parts and emotions and not be judged and everyone understands and supports. I've never had a negative experience at a baby group, how dare he accuse these women of sexism when they just wanted to help!

1. He's offended by people in public offering him unwanted advice and again thinks this is sexist because he's a man. Please. Again, you are not getting special treatment because you are a man, We ALL deal with this. For some reason strangers think they have some ownership over random babies in the street. Especially the older generation who did things quite differently it seems. Yes it's irritating but we just come to terms with it! We learn to not be upset by these busy bodies and become confident in the job we are doing.

1. 'Mothers I've met have asked if I am somehow the "mummy"' ok, terrible choice of language however it's not unreasonable to assume that a baby has a 'primary carer', in fact it's quite important that they do.

1. He finds the lyrics to nursery rhymes in the music group sexist against men. Again, you are not special here. Most nursery rhymes are ancient and have gender specific language that is sexist towards both men and women. I've found most music groups change or avoid the gender stereotype language.

1. He's finds the fact that most baby groups are tailored towards mums offensive- well yes of course because mums are massively in the majority as the primary carer.

1. He's found being a new parent 'lonely and exhausting'. Um yes, that's normal.

Sorry but a lot of the support at the beginning of parenting is geared towards mums because they have gone through pregnancy, birth, and we are just at the beginning of a long journey of healing physically and emotionally. We need this.

My dp was a stay at home dad for three of his kids with ex. He found some ppl awful at baby groups and suspicious of him as male in a largely female environment.
Some ppl were great but not all. Sahd have it hard as there is stigma I think

YABVU - it’s pretty obvious that he has experienced sexism. The examples he gave of being given advice in public were clearly based on the fact that he was a man - ie “shall I hold the baby for you” and “men shouldn’t look after the baby”. Re your point 3 - being asked whether he’s “the mummy”, it’s wrong because it assumes the right way is for the woman to be the primary carer. Would you agree with it if this was a heterosexual couple and the mother was asked if she was the “daddy” because she worked??! And what if this was a couple where both worked full time? As for the “mum and toddler groups” - the language suggests that it is the norm for the mother to be at the groups and the child’s primary carer. But why should that be the norm? Why shouldn’t we encourage equality in parenting by just calling them toddler groups which we all know are, in practice, attended by a range of carers such as mums, dads, grandparents. It’s the sexism of parenting. As soon as I became a mother I experienced it. There are so many ways that society reinforces the traditional gender differences between mothers and fathers and the most shocking thing of all is that most people just accept it. So well done for this man speaking out against it.

Because OP whenever get men get treated the same way women do (even those that actively seek out to be seen and treated like a women) then they immediately start shouting about how horribly they are being treated- well no shit Sherlock! Welcome to everyday life as a woman. Men have no bloody clue about the everyday sexism women face.

Really, there ARE people (mothers to be frank) who act like they are the only ones who have ever had children and they're in people's faces about it.

I'm glad someone has voiced this.

YABU. Whilst I do think the article is written a tad dramatically (unsolicited advice we all get that regardless of sex!) I think that the whole set up of baby groups, baby changing facilities and in general a new baby is geared towards the mother, and dad’s are left out in the cold.

Baby changing spots is my major bug bear, we have twins and when two kids have exploded, and they’re in the ladies loos, it’s a nightmare. We’ve had to ask permission from a member of staff to be able to both get in to change the babies, and on occasion my husband has been left outside and unable to change a baby that needs it because it’s assumed only women do that.

People refer to my dh looking after the kids as babysitting, ummm.. no it’s not, he’s their parent!

If we want true equality, instead of mother and baby, parent and child needs to become the norm. We’re all going through the same experience (whoever takes the parental leave) so it’s ridiculous only women are allowed in certain groups, and blokes are excluded. It just reinforces Women’s work and that men can’t do it.

Welcome to everyday life as a woman. Men have no bloody clue about the everyday sexism women face.

to be honest, I am a woman, and I can't say sexism is an everyday problem in my life. I am not trying to pretend it doesn't exist, just pointing out that it's not a curse we all have to deal with daily. It's rare enough that it really doesn't bother me personally that much.

Yes / agree that some women do have a superior attitude when they have children and are also v judgemental about women that chose not to have kids as well.
More men will be stay at home dads I predict and thought patterns do need to change about this.

Choose rather

This article annoyed me too. I actually think there is a very valid point in there but

1. the examples are poor and do not illustrate the point. Alot of them would happen to women and it makes it seem like he had no idea ol about the experiences he could expect as a primary carer of a young baby, good and bad. Of course more support for the difficult bits would be better but Isolation and judgement are experienced by a large number of new parents and the majority of it isn't related to the fact he is male, which is what he appears to be blaming it on. 2). It focuses on the experience of a very young baby. These areas are always more likely to be female dominated, given pregnancy, childbirth and Breastfeeding are only options for women.

Something that focuses on an older baby/toddler with some constructive actions that groups could take would be far more useful.

"It's hard to imagine a woman in the same situation being offered an idiot's guide to parenting"

It happened to me loads with my pfb. I remember rushing to a cafe to b/feed her as it was raining and she was crying and a random woman shouted at me "feed the baby."

As for mother and baby groups being 'safe spaces' again, not in my experience. I found there were some people who were there for company and others who liked to judge.

I'll never forget waddling into toddler group at 38 weeks pregnant with my 1 year old in tow and the woman who ran the group demanding loudly "why have you OPTED for a ceasarean this time, then?"

I'd never spoken to her about my birth choices but obviously someone had gossiped to her and she thought it was absolutely legitimate for her to demand that I explain myself to her.

My ELCS was agreed on mental health grounds, as it happens, not that I told her that.

So, OP, I largely agree with you that there are people out there who just try to make parents of small children feel shit.

I've also noticed that it stops when you get past the toddler/baby stage.

I think sometimes dads who are primary caters can end up having to deal with a fair amount of ‘mumsplaining’ or condescending how do you look after your own children type comments. It seems a common theme, and is how they feel- so needs to be taken as valid, whether others agree or not.

I agree completely with the OP . He sounds like such a flake. There were two men in my baby and toddler group and they got treated the same as anyone else because they were pleasant, open minded people, trying like the rest of us to negotiate the early hills of parenting, not looking for micro aggressions in every little thing.

25-30 years ago, OH was a SAHD. He was bewildered at first, then irritated by the amount of interference, helpful suggestions and intrusive questions he got from mothers of all ages. The ‘Ah, bless, how will a man cope?’ brigade.
Yes, new mothers get it too, but that doesn’t invalidate the man’s specific experiences, or diminish the role of a patriarchal society in creating unnecessary and illogical pressures on parents.

Meh. Man in privileged position experiences a tiny bit of what it’s like to have slightly less priviledge. Throws toys out of pram as a result.

What Cheby says.

The boot is on the other foot, and he doesn't like it. He should put on his bog boy underkecks and get on with it. Women have to cope with patronising sexist crap in male dominated environments even now.

I honk that putting up with it instead of challenging it is why it’s still a problem.

All of those things happen to women too, and women are allowed to complain. I don't see the issue.

YABU, patriarchy impacts men too and part of building a gender equal society involves ensuring men aren't stigmatised when they stray outside of "traditional" roles or expectations. Calling out the narrative that men are useless or incapable when it comes to childcare/domestic responsibilities is absolutely part of that.

You, in dismissing his viewpoint instead of engaging it, are reinforcing the status quo. It's damaging for both women and men.

My Dad did a lot of our childcare in the early 90's- he talks now about how dismissive people were of his ability to take care of us, and how they'd patronisingly praise the most basic things he did or overtly criticise him if he did the slightest thing wrong. Frustrating for both him and my Mum.

I read this the other day.

Was personally annoyed that this man was given a national platform to take issues that all primary carers face and make them about himself and his sex. Not saying that sexism doesn't happen in places like baby groups but that the majority of his claims were things that most carers (especially mums) face in the same places and therefore not likely to be sexism in most cases.

YABU

It's likely to be even more lonely and isolating for a man because he's probably going to find it more difficult to make friends at baby groups etc. than women. At nursery and school the social events are very much sold as "mum's nights out", "girls night" etc. usually an individual knows if they're being patronised and why because they can compare how those individual's react to them and to the women there.

Having children is a minefield. We should supporting each other more.

Meh. Man in privileged position experiences a tiny bit of what it’s like to have slightly less priviledge. Throws toys out of pram as a result.

What an abhorrent and sexist attitude. I hope this is stupidity rather than malice. The patriarchy sets up unreasonable expectations on gender grounds that negatively impact women and sometimes men. You can't only care when it impacts you and ignore it when it impacts men. This is all part of the same cycle. The idea that men are less capable of childcare has a massive negative impact on women (the assumption that a mother is going to be the one taking time out of work when kids are sick etc.) and this is all part of it.

You have no idea whether this man has benefited from patriarchy in the past, but he's being disadvantaged now.

1. Is a massive insult to the mother. Stbx looked after dd four days a week when I went back to work. People actuallybtold me 8 was "more like a father" even though I still did the majority of housework and washing and remembering stuff. Hugely insulting.

I think some of the things he raises are valid complaints and some others not so.
However I thought that being a stay at home dad was old hat now.
I live in a Northern Town were people may not be perceived to be as socially progressive as in, say central London but out of our friendship circle 22 years ago( when Ds was birn) there was 3 stay at home dads. It wasn't a shocking thing, it was just something that suited the couples. No one mocked and it was just a logical thing to do.

This guy makes him sound like a novelty act.when it is not particularly an unusual situation

Maybe I'm just fiercely protective of women knowing what they have been though/ could be going through

You're not protecting women - no woman is being oppressed by him! You're just having a whingy rant.

His difficulties can exist without invalidating what women go through - it's not a competition. Why are you trying to deny his experience?

You're just attacking a man and denying problems that limit women's options by excluding stay at home fathers.