Aibu or is school, regarding discipline?

[Imustbemad00]

Would like any information anyone can give me regarding secondary schools and discipline procedures.
My child’s secondary school is strict. I knew it was strict, partly why I chose it. However, in reality, it is causing so many problems. My child has changed so much since starting there, unhappy, suffering with mental health and has developed a bad attitude problem and I will admit is being quite naughty at school and at home. Im worried.

This brings me on to the school rules and discipline. The school penalises children for looking out of a window, or anything viewed as a drop in concentration or messing around. Even dropping a pen. They have to move through the corridors in silence and not make eye contact with anyone and can’t even mess about at break time. They have to sit and chat and be sensible. It’s like they can not have personalities.

The sanctions for bad behaviour are extreme. My child has spent a lot of time in isolation, which means out of lessons. Not learning. Not talking to another person all day. Not great for a child already struggling with mental health.

The school also give them double detentions, meaning my child is was in school for 9 hours and 45mins today without talking to another child or being in any lessons, arriving home at 6.30pm.

I try to work with them as I know my child’s behaviour is the cause of punishments, but honestly feel they are way over the top and their approach is making things worse. They say that those are their policies and that is that.

I’m thinking of moving schools but worry my child’s behaviour could worsen if boundriers were relaxed. But equally they could flourish if not so unhappy and stressed.

So Aibu to think the schools policies are over the top? Is it normal?

@Imustbemad00 I'm talking about fixed term exclusion (used to be known as suspension) which are used for persistently not following the school code of conduct if other internal sanctions have failed.

Imustbemad00

Because there is poor behaviour and then there is persistently poor behaviour? Because if a child isn't responding to one form of sanction, it is a progression to the next level? Do you seriously think it is okay for schools to let a minority of children persist in disrupting learning for everyone else?

Please, just home school your child. I'm sure the "education" you provide will stand him in good stead.

No I think internal exclusion should be used as a last resort for very poor behaviour when all other methods have failed.

Imustbemad00

What do you define as "very poor behaviour" if not rudeness and answering back? It is baffling to me.

Things I think internal exclusion should be used for. Violence, aggressive language or actions, threatening behaviour, racism, bullying, possessing a prohibited or banned item, and persistent breaking of rules, such as rudeness after other steps, such as warnings, detentions, reports, being sent to head of years ect have been followed and keep failing. These steps should be clear, as should the expectations.

Violence, aggressive language or actions, threatening behaviour, racism, bullying, possessing a prohibited or banned item, and persistent breaking of rules, such as rudeness after other steps, such as warnings, detentions, reports, being sent to head of years ect have been followed and keep failing.

Then find a school with that policy.
Personally, I suspect your child's behaviour is much worse than you are trying to make out here. I think you sound deluded about him. However, clearly you are unhappy with the policy at the school, so I suggest you move him or home school him.

I have been looking st behaviour policies and have found some good ones with really clear steps to follow. Detentions that range from 30-90 mind depending on who they are set by, a clear line of responsibility for teachers, such as teachers first, then head of year, then senior teacher. Withdrawals of breaks, then detentions of varying lengths.m, being put on reports for up to 2 weeks, the list goes on.

Also clear rules such as a warning, then written warning, then detention given l, then removal from class for that lesson ect all these things before an internal exclusion even considered. This sounds good to me.

I am most definelty not deluded and believe that some of you must live in some parallel universe that o do not wish to be a part of. Either that or I just haven’t explained it very well. But I don’t believe anyone could agree with this School’s use of internal exclusion of you actually understood it.

My child’s behaviour is not worse than I think, unless the school are lying to me..my information comes from the school.

I’m sure that’s the case in more normal schools, OP. But, let’s face it, you are not going to change this one! In your position, I would get your DC on the waiting list of all the decent schools in your area. Have another look at the good school in the bad area - other children must go there with no obvious ill-effects. Even take a look at the school in special measures, seeing it was put there by the same ofsted as awarded outstanding to the school you hate.

Where do the DCs who were with yours in primary go? They must be spread through a mix of schools, surely?

Imustbemad00

Look, whatever. The bottom line is, they can and are following this policy. You have feet. Vote with them or stop moaning.

Whoops, thread moved on. My response was to OPs 0916 post.

Yes only a few from primary went to the same school. The rest are elsewhere. Several faith schools that we wouldn’t get into. Unfortunately they are the best and most over subscribed schools.

I never wanted this post to go this way. As I stated earlier, I just wanted to know if the use of internal exclusion was normal, as the school have led me to believe. Turns out it isn’t. As I suspected.

@Imustbemad00

Things I think internal exclusion should be used for. Violence, aggressive language or actions, threatening behaviour, racism, bullying, possessing a prohibited or banned item, and persistent breaking of rules.

Some of the things you have described on here are very much more than inclusion room incidence!!!! I personally would not want to send my DC to a school where they are merely put in inclusion for violence, or possessing prohibited items (usually weapons or drugs!!!)

I found the behaviour policy of the school in question and based on the way in which it dramatically escalates sanctions I don't find it difficult to believe that OP is being honest about her child's behaviour. It's draconian and vaguely cult-like - like someone read Foucault on disciplinary institutions and thought 'hey, this is a great way to produce obedient high-achieving children, let's use it as a manual.' Self-esteem and independent thought unnecessary. Calling detentions 'Correction' is ideologically chilling, really.

Recognising that having a top button undone, not looking at a teacher or forgetting your book are less-than-ideal behaviours which might need to be addressed is one thing. Saying 'that's too many demerits, off you go to isolation from 8:30-5:15, and if you do anything wrong while you're there, however tiny or unimportant, it's another full day there for you?' Bizarrely disproportionate. I can see why a child would become rude and rebellious when treated that way.

I'd actually have loved being able to work alone in silence all day at school and the material conditions of 'isolation' wouldn't have bothered me one bit - being in a controlling, oppressive environment that sent me there for ridiculous reasons would have, though.

@Imustbemad00 the use of interval exclusion/ isolation/ inclusion is definitely normal

*Recognising that having a top button undone, not looking at a teacher or forgetting your book are less-than-ideal behaviours which might need to be addressed is one thing. Saying 'that's too many demerits, off you go to isolation from 8:30-5:15, and if you do anything wrong while you're there, however tiny or unimportant, it's another full day there for you?'

Sorry, but aren't you missing the part where the child refuses to correct the issue?

I never wanted this post to go this way. As I stated earlier, I just wanted to know if the use of internal exclusion was normal, as the school have led me to believe. Turns out it isn’t. As I suspected

I think you should trust that gut instinct and get your son out. Visit other schools and think about where he might be the most at home and comfortable - and (to be blunt) less likely to rebel and turn into a school refuser.

Yes you are right, I apologise. Prohibited items ect are definitely cases for proper exclusion, I worded it wrong, but you get the point I was trying to make.

He's 11. No adult world be held to those standards.

I’m not saying it’s not normal. I’m saying the use of it... the reasons. Anyway I think everyone has made their points. And yes, I think at this school my child’s behaviour and mental health is only
Going to get worse. I have started making phone calls to other schools today.

He's 11. No adult world be held to those standards.

But when I was a child, I was held to similar standards. At my school, we did exactly what we were asked or we moved up the behaviour ladder until we were suspended or excluded. It rarely happened, because people wore their uniform correctly and were attentive.

My child is in isolation today, for the third day in a row, for a uniform incident (as in, wearing the uniform, but said item has something wrong with it) I was under the impression that uniform infringements warranted a detention, not isolation. So this is now the third day in a row my child hasn’t received any education. In the room is a generic teacher, there is a moxtjre of children with different needs and abilities. They do not get taught in the room. I have decided I need to move my child to a school that will provide them with an education, one that will use detentions and other sanctions before isolation where hopefully my child can relax a bit and their behaviour and personality will go back to how it was 6 months ago.

My child is in isolation today, for the third day in a row, for a uniform incident (as in, wearing the uniform, but said item has something wrong with it) I was under the impression that uniform infringements warranted a detention, not isolation

Why has this gone on for three days, OP?

As I stated earlier, I just wanted to know if the use of internal exclusion was normal, as the school have led me to believe. Turns out it isn’t. As I suspected.

While it might be normal across schools, what it used for, how often and for how long will vary considerably. I don't know if schools have any obligation to report any of this, so you can only go by what people tell you which will be descriptive and anecdotal.

FWIW, schools where I live do have to report fixed term exclusions to the LA. 16 years ago I had a job where I assisted the person responsible for education stats. We had one school whose fixed term exclusions were greater than all the others put together (probably why she needed my assistance) and another school of similar size who excluded precisely no-one. I think all our schools are much kinder institutions than the one in the OP, but just give this as an example of how schools can be very different in how they treat misbehaviour.

What do you mean by why has it gone on three days? It’s for 3 seperate things, is that what you meant?
Also can anyone tell me how to reply to an individual comment where it comes up in bold in my comment like above