Aibu or is school, regarding discipline?

[Imustbemad00]

Would like any information anyone can give me regarding secondary schools and discipline procedures.
My child’s secondary school is strict. I knew it was strict, partly why I chose it. However, in reality, it is causing so many problems. My child has changed so much since starting there, unhappy, suffering with mental health and has developed a bad attitude problem and I will admit is being quite naughty at school and at home. Im worried.

This brings me on to the school rules and discipline. The school penalises children for looking out of a window, or anything viewed as a drop in concentration or messing around. Even dropping a pen. They have to move through the corridors in silence and not make eye contact with anyone and can’t even mess about at break time. They have to sit and chat and be sensible. It’s like they can not have personalities.

The sanctions for bad behaviour are extreme. My child has spent a lot of time in isolation, which means out of lessons. Not learning. Not talking to another person all day. Not great for a child already struggling with mental health.

The school also give them double detentions, meaning my child is was in school for 9 hours and 45mins today without talking to another child or being in any lessons, arriving home at 6.30pm.

I try to work with them as I know my child’s behaviour is the cause of punishments, but honestly feel they are way over the top and their approach is making things worse. They say that those are their policies and that is that.

I’m thinking of moving schools but worry my child’s behaviour could worsen if boundriers were relaxed. But equally they could flourish if not so unhappy and stressed.

So Aibu to think the schools policies are over the top? Is it normal?

Because it suits people who are outraged to paint a picture of some sort of horrifying dungeon aimed at destorying children's souls.

It's absolutely ludicrous! Our "isolation" room isn't called "isolation" and it's perfectly pleasant. The students aren't alone. They are not wearing sound-cancelling headphones or blindfolds. They aren't suspended in mid-air. What's wrong with some of these people? 😂

2 things here.

Plenty of school are adopting the 'zero tolerance' approach and it does work for a small sector of society.
However I don't believe it works for those who aren't extremely keen to learn, have any send, are more social than academic or aren't extremely passive in personality or anyone who's got any slight tendency to anxiety.

And that's the 2nd thing. Your child cannot cope in this environment. Maybe in another school they won't be different - but it's likely in another setting (search the right one) they'll put in support alongside consequence to help the child manage their emotions and find a better way to behave.

Is the school an academy?

I'm with you user.
If a few hours being expected to work in silence in a classroom is classed as sensory deprivation then it's a very snowflakey outlook.

How will these darlings manage exams? I mean, they'll be in a hall for a few hours working in silence and they won't have a member of staff to ask for help (like they do in isolation). Every year thousands of children are deprived of their senses when pesky exams come around.

This sensory deprivation idea is frankly ridiculous. It's a classroom. Where students who are not following school policies go. It stops further disruption. It isn't supposed to be cuddly and lovely with sensory walls, a Sky subscription and an xbox. The idea is the students don't particularly like it. It is a deterrent. Most kids who end up in isolation become little lambs once there because the oxygen of an audience is gone and there is no crowd to play to.

Not a teacher but I have a DD and DS.

That's strange, SunShades, given that in your other persona you claim to be a deputy head teacher.

This is not discipline. It's oppression

It most definitely is sensory deprivation. It’s a white room, withbwork stations seperated into sections, no windows ect. Not allowed to talk to anybody all day. No break or lunch break. They eat in there.
Start at 8 and dismissed at 5 and sometimes 5.45.

Yes some of the current isolations are deserved. But the previous ones might be what led us to this point.

I’m horrified to learn this goes on in so many schools. I can only hope it is not fished out as easily.

I’m wondering if they would give me statistics on how many children are in this room per week or month. They are expected to read over their work/revise or donwork sheets on there. So my child has missed an awful lot of actual teaching time.

I don’t know why people are assuming that for people to go in there it means they are causing disruption to others. That is not the case.

Well my child communicated during their 9hr 45 min stint on Friday so will be back in there for another 9 tomorrow.

It’s not a few hours. My child left home at 7. Spent 10 hours in isolation. Came home at 6.30om and went to be at 9. That’s nearly all their waking hours in there. I personally couldn’t do that.

I just wish I knew this went on before I looked at secondary schools. I’d never heard of it.

It would never have occurred to me to check if a school has a policy of heavy handed punishment for not keeping ones eye s on the teacher at all times. Many ordinary, happy, employed adults would struggle with those rules. Many kids would probably find themselves becoming anxious when they weren't before.

@Imustbebad00

What do you mean your child communicated?

If he's had a lot a lot of isolations and his behaviour hasn't improved then the method isn't working for him is it?

I wouldn't send him in! When's does school finish?

Take him to look at other schools instead

Communicated can mean spoke, smiled at someone, turned around to look at someone, passed a note. In this case it was passed a piece of material. Sounds weird I know. Didn’t have anything written on it. Maybe was a way of getting another child’s attention I’m not sure.

Also the point about children not wearing blind folds or noise cancelling headphones in isolation is irrelevant as there is nothing to listen to or look at anyway.

I looked at Michaela. There was nothing. The children play table tennis or basketball, they do clubs, they read, they sit and have conversations. Their unstructured time is calm and purposeful in a way I have genuinely never seen in other schools. They were adamant that there was no bullying and if there was it would not be tolerated, and I believed them.

Now was that visit announced in advance or just a turn up without warning visit?.

It’s not for everyone but if you buy into it it can be amazing.

Oh you must mean "parental donations"?.

I was in favour of the longer school day, and the way they teach respect. But I no longer think it’s about respect. It’s about conforming.

Oh yes, there is "respect", but the kids have been ordered to respect the staff, but nowt goes the other way.

Why wasn't his shirt tucked in? It's his responsibility to know the uniform rules and ensure he complies with them. He'd have got an instant after school detention at DS's school with no warning.

How fucking petty of your DS's school. At least GreenTulip's DS was in full uniform.

I don't see why sensory deprivation can't be used as one aspect of a system of punishments in a school.

As it can be classed as torture, which is illegal.
What next...force feeding children with food they can't eat?. Which is no doubt against the law & also illegal!.

They know the rules they have to follow, so any punishment they receive is down to them(and both know they'll be punished further at home)

So a severe beating at home in your naice Upper MC area, behind closed doors, then.?

Why are we talking about sensory deprivation?

Because sunshades brought it up and s/he is all for it.

That's strange, SunShades, given that in your other persona you claim to be a deputy head teacher.

Is that the same "sunshade" who said that any pupil will be kicked out of HER school at a 1st offence?

@Bibesia

I think you're thinking of another poster. I've never claimed to be a deputy headteacher. I'm a senior manager within a large company.

I think you're thinking of another poster. I've never claimed to be a deputy headteacher. I'm a senior manager within a large company.

You are calF and I claim my 5£.

When isolation happens often for prolonged periods of time, in this case 9h is far more than 1 or 2 periods, then it does start to become sensory deprivation. People who are excluded or denied normal human contact, when not their choice, may experience heightened distress, hallucinations, anxiety, depression. There are meant to be fairly strict rules about using isolation in care and in schools.

From the behaviour policy in England that all schoola must follow it clearly states punishment must take into account SEN needs and isolation should only be used for a limited period of time.

Also point 15 clearly states that the punishment muat be proportionate. For the chd with a shirt tail out the punishment was not proportionate and is an abuse of power.

Sorry can only attatch 1 at a time

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.gov.uk/government/publications/behaviour-and-discipline-in-schools&ved=2ahUKEwj5t6z6sqLcAhUlLsAKHeE_AGAQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3VNYEiEDm5r3V8rJaQQWSi" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.gov.uk/government/publications/behaviour-and-discipline-in-schools&ved=2ahUKEwj5t6z6sqLcAhUlLsAKHeE_AGAQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3VNYEiEDm5r3V8rJaQQWSi

I am a secondary teacher. I could not and absolutely would not work in a school like this.

You don't even need me to tell you that this isn't the way to get kids to learn, to progress, to engage with the world and their future.

Discipline is important but it's about learning respect and appropriate behaviour.

Sitting for hours and hours without speaking to someone and not being able to even drop something or look at your surroundings is not promoting appropriate behaviour.

Your child is clearly showing the effects of this approach move schools now! Even without that evidence now you know this is what's happening why would you allow your child to be treated that way??? Even if your child is a complete ratbag at least in another school you'll know they're being disciplined for actual specific inappropriate behaviour!

The teachers in that school must despair. We're being performance managed by results how can they get results in that environment?!

Yep, I think you're right, SteamTrains.

You mean:- Yep I agree, we're all mistaken, it's all a dream and btw Bobby is still alive?.

Categed no fucking way, would we (DP & Myself) agree to 39-41!.