To wonder why we aren't rioting in the streets?

[Danniz]

So:
The government is about to begin stockpiling processed food in case the country is plunged into chaos by a “no deal” Brexit.
In just over half a year the UK is going to be wrecked for decades to come. We're looking at rationing, for God's sake. Power cuts. Mass unemployment. The loss of our employment and human rights. The new Health Secretary has allegedly received 10s of 1000s from the head of a thinktank that wants to abolish the NHS. There is no plan for the future. Not even the most ardent of the Brexiter politicians that got us into this mess are pretending that we aren't looking at massive economic and social problems.
Isn't it time for us as ordinary citizens who, with our children, will pay for this fiasco to start demonstrating, meeting our MPs, doing anything else that might possibly help to stop this? I don't just mean the demonstration that took place in London, and the others around the country - I mean serious numbers of people, making their voices heard. Because we will all suffer the very serious consequences of this mess.

If I can make a comparison, it's not like leaving a husband that abuses you.
It's more like leaving a husband that doesn't like to do the dishes, so that you can wash only your dishes in a one bed flat.

I'm sure the UK won't sink under the North Atlantic, but why leave something OK for something worse?

This is the Sunlit Uplands we were promised? My god, they’re so... beautiful!

@oldsickeater have you been to poorer eu countries? Very few people in the UK have known poverty. Unless you mean the fake poverty measures used by the government that simply mean poorer than my immediate neighbours? If you were to pull your head out if your arse you would find that poverty is more common in societies that have economic policies that aim to create equality (so socialist and communist nations). The British welfare state is incredibly generous providing all the basic needs that are necessary to prevent poverty. The area of our economy that us an issue (equally under Conservative and Labour governments) is housing. Poor quality housing stock (lead to fuel poverty) and a lack of housing (causing greater levels of homelessness) is the problem. The issue isn't inequality but difficulty in building housing.

How weird should we all subscribe to your personal vernacular now lest you get offended?

I'm not offended in the least. I'm just wondering what your motivations are.
Maybe I'm being a tad too subtle.

racecardriver exactly. I was raised in a few eu countries before settling and it always astounds me the whole grass is greener in europe hyperbole we are always fed. Poverty in europe is as bad as ever.

This is why Brexit is a cult.

Brexit supporter presents an argument for the benefits of Brexit. Argument is demolished. Another argument is brought up - free of specifics but full of exhortations to be positive.

I seriously wonder how bad reality has to get before we penetrate these levels of delusion.

As for taking back control remember even David Davis admitted, on camera, we always had the right to veto any new EU law but never did, NOT ONCE .
We always had control, but now have given it away to a bunch of Russian funded, tax avoiding, liars.

Subtle you say? Or just outright trying to start a fight because i dont talk the way you want me to? Do you often try and police how people type?

@ebdofeternity so? That doesbt prevent trade. If businesses find trade with the EU too expensive they can go elsewhere. There are many countries have have very little trade with the EU and they do just fine. We really don't have to trade with the EU to get the things we need. I grew up outside of the EU. EU imports were fairly limited. Quality of life was still better than it is in Britain (although it was hard to buy decent soft cheese)

Don’t worry, we may suffer
- massive job losses There may be job losses, the same is true in retail. I refuse to entertain self service tills.
- no isotopes to diagnose or treat cancers Please expand on this point.
- run out of medicines we may run out of some medicines when there are supply chain issues.
- food shortages we may experience some shortages in some food when the crops fail.
- and power cuts we may get power cuts if Russia or someone else hacks the system too. It's sensible to plan for this.

That is not fair, people have anxiety.

Anyway it doesnt matter what i say or think. Brexit is happening. You are free to wallow and comolain and blame random peoples voting choices or you can blame the government who started it.

Ok, I'll be clear in what I mean.

Message boards like this are infiltrated by people with an agenda who use the tactic of saying that they are for whatever, but for some strange reason only put forward arguments against it.

As in "I don't like Trump, but isn't he great?", or "I'm for remain, but brexiters do have strong points".

Maybe you are genuine, but I have my doubts.

If thats aimed at me I not once said anything about oven gloves nor did I say I wanted brexit.

You say that MarthaArthur but you were the one posting the link to the Express article which listed them. As has subsequently been pointed out, most of these regulations are much more nuanced than the Express is capable of explaining.

Racecardriver

"There are many countries have have very little trade with the EU and they do just fine."

But none who have EU borders, and none who have had significant trade with the EU previously. Crap comparison.

"We really don't have to trade with the EU to get the things we need."

But we need to sell things to the EU, as its our biggest export market by far. We aren't going to sell things in these other countries, because you know there has been nothing stopping us so far and we aren't.

@lewji have you lived out of the EU? I'm my experience it was better. It's all a question of what you do with the opportunity (tories fir example are doing fuck all so unless we have a change of government it will probably be worse but it doesn't have to be). I don't think being in or out is inherently better but I do find people who think being out is inherently bad ignorant. Go live in the Asia Pacific or something. The EU is a fairly small (and increasingly) isolated part of the world. There are other ways to live you know.

Have your doubts as much as you like. It doesnt stop brexit happening and it doesnt stop people like me trying to find the positives. Or should we all stop sleeping and eating and quit our jobs before we lose them whilst everything is still unknown?

People keep saying votes would be very different if we redid the referendum tomorrow and i believe they would be different. The fact remains we are not getting another one so why pin your hopes on it suddenly being overturned?

@topcat1980

The EU has been stopping us-what rock have you been living under? The EU sets external tarrifs and very strict regulations to improve internal trade, this makes trade with non-member states difficult in that an individual member state will struggle to negotiate trade deals that other countries would agree to and we all know that the EU is shit at negotiating block wide deals.

" The EU is a fairly small (and increasingly) isolated part of the world. "

Clap trap.

Obviously if we pull our fingers out we could improve exports outside the EU as well. Just because we have mostly trades with them to date doesn't mean we simply cannot trade with anyone else. That is just lazy thinking.

Is this the newest Brexit tactic?

Having long given up on claiming there will be benefits we had a long period of "will of the people" now we're getting "Well there's no point in trying to stop it even if that would be a good thing". What's next?

@topcat have you lived outside? On the outside the EU looks very far away and inwards looking.

@rasecardriver hmm well maybe where you live. Up here in the grim north poverty is widespread. People living in virtual slum conditions, high levels of disabilities and poor health, need for foodbanks, low levels of social mobility, poor educational standards, homeless people everywhere, drug abuse, etc etc. Whole sections of society where people have no aspirations.

Housing is not a problem here- we have much empty housing and a decreasing population because of few jobs.

Redistribution of wealth does not mean communism. It means policies designed to help those at the bottom of the pile - for example, laws which give tenants rights and employment rights. Generally those countries which have more wealth redistribution have less poverty. e.g. Germany and the Netherlands. Those which don't, have more poverty e.g. the USA.

"The EU sets external tarrifs and very strict regulations to improve internal trade, this makes trade with non-member states difficult in that an individual member state will struggle to negotiate trade deals that other countries would agree to and we all know that the EU is shit at negotiating block wide deals"

The EU has hundreds of trade agreements with about 52 other countries and trad blocs. The EU is actually very good at negotiating deals, the FTA with South Korea for example has increased British trade with S.K by over 90% for example.

You know trade deals take a long time? The AUstralia and Chinese one took 10 years, The Chinese and Swiss one took 7 years.

ARe you proposing removing tariffs? Fan of the Minford model?

THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!!

"On the outside the EU looks very far away and inwards looking."

Yes in your opinion.