To post on trans issues in the Feminist Chat forum?

[DadJoke]

I've been posting a lot on trans issues over in feminist chat. I am keenly aware that it's primarily a women's forum, for women to discuss issues pertaining to their needs. I also know that the presence of men in women's spaces can undermine useful discussions and become "all about the men"

When I say women, I include transwomen. I know many of you don't, but that's not at all what this AIBU is about.

So, am I making a useful contribution to the debate, or undermining it?

Once again, why haven't you asked the people whose questions you answered, whether they found your contribution useful?

...and believed their answer?

I will respect your views and not post on trans issues again outside this thread.

Do you pinky promise?

Thank God

lottiegarbanzo Were responses from 'trans-friendly contributors' actually, actively being sought? Or did you decide those threads could do with one? If there was such an invitation, did you accept graciously, recognise its parameters, offer your response to the question you'd been invited to answer, then leave politely? Or did you overstay your welcome?

I am not sure, which is why I was asking. I'll give you an example.

^Do you disagree with the definition of 'woman' as 'adult human female'?

If you disagree, what is your own definition of the word?

A woman is....what exactly?

Is there even a definition? Or is 'woman' simply indefinable in your view?

On the 'A Woman is an Adult Human Female' thread I asked those who disagree to provide their alternative definition of the word.

Several people engaged, but nobody seemed able to do this.

If you have one, please post your alternative definition here. Thanks.^

So, I posted on this thread with a definition of a women which wasn't AHF, then answered any questions which came up.

lottiegarbanzo Once again, why haven't you asked the people whose questions you answered, whether they found your contribution useful?

That was kind of what I was trying to do. Very badly.

LangCleg It might seem unlikely, but I actually engaged in order to educate myself through debate, and hopefully contribute something useful or at least not disruptive.

And I will take largely irrelevant to the bank

GerdaLovesLil I pinky promise.

OP, may I ask you, apart from transwomen, are there any other 'types of women' whom you would automatically and absolutely rule out as a potential sexual partner without having met or seen them?

(And if not... what, really, do you think the statement 'transwomen are women' is really worth?)

multivac
OP, may I ask you, apart from transwomen, are there any other 'types of women' whom you would automatically and absolutely rule out as a potential sexual partner without having met or seen them

I don't know what you mean by any other "types of women." Can you give me an example?

It's rather more to the point that you should be able to give me an example, really. Can you?

Post away, DadJoke. Here and on the FWR board you provide, as trans allies/Trash/MRAs so often (if unwittingly) do, a sort of springboard. FWR and AIBU regulars alike are using you as the bouncing off point to create a dazzling display of intersecting knowledge and experience as they run easy rings around you.

It might help to think of yourself as a sort of wooden plinth. (Wanders off applauding the acrobats while humming "Some day my plinth will come")

I havent read the whole thread dadjoke pontificating yet but

TellsEveryoneRealFacts I think i fucking love you!
I am a female in an all male team. I talk about the menopause all the fucking time! It is a fucking nightmare and I tell the men I work with what actually happens so that they might be able to support their wives and partners should they be privileged enough to still have one at that point.

Should have been "trans allies/TRAs/MRAs". Bloody autocorrect.

multivac I don't know of any other types of women, apart from perhaps intersex people who identify as women. I am not sure how the absence of another category of women is relevant. I don't understand your argument.

Try and answer multivac's question. Go on.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Should have been "trans allies/TRAs/MRAs". Bloody autocorrect

I did wonder. Trash seemed a little harsh.

It might help to think of yourself as a sort of wooden plinth. (Wanders off applauding the acrobats while humming "Some day my plinth will come")

What is a non-trans woman?

OP thanks for trying with citations. Although not sure how you want to invoke concept of gender dysphoria? Are you saying those with gender dysphoria, which is a diagnosable condition, are legitimately trans and not others? If so further complicates the debate as other bodies such as the American Psychiatric association exclude occasional cross-dressing from the category:

'Gender dysphoria is not the same as gender nonconformity, which refers to behaviors not matching the gender norms or stereotypes of the gender assigned at birth. Examples of gender nonconformity (also referred to as gender expansiveness or gender creativity) include girls behaving and dressing in ways more socially expected of boys or occasional cross-dressing in adult men. Gender nonconformity is not a mental disorder. Gender dysphoria is also not the same being gay/lesbian.'
www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

This is relevant because the definition of 'trans' in circulation by groups such as Stonewall would include this category and argue that this category should be able to self-id.

HemanOrSheRa

What is a non-trans woman?

A female person whose gender identity matches their sex.

If you are Socractically leading me to definitions of women, I addressed this in the thread which was devoted to that discussion here.

Dottierichardson I don't agree with Stonewalls definition. Gender expression and gender identity are very different things. They conflate gender expression with gender identity, which I think I think reifies sexism.

Intersex people don't, as I understand it, want to be part of these debates and this should be respected. Intersex refers to a set of biological phenomena, thus not part of the sex vs gender debate taking place.

I can only assume the use of "non-trans woman" was a deliberate attempt to be goady.

"woman" and "tranwoman" serves well.

Or do you describe yourself as a "non-trans man"?

Why do you have to say "non-trans woman" instead of "woman"?

OP, would you describe yourself as 'straight' (if specifically asked about your sexuality in an appropriate context)?

OP you still haven't responded to the question about gender, you asserted its primacy but didn't back this up. In the words of the immortal Willow 'Bored Now.'