To post on trans issues in the Feminist Chat forum?

[DadJoke]

I've been posting a lot on trans issues over in feminist chat. I am keenly aware that it's primarily a women's forum, for women to discuss issues pertaining to their needs. I also know that the presence of men in women's spaces can undermine useful discussions and become "all about the men"

When I say women, I include transwomen. I know many of you don't, but that's not at all what this AIBU is about.

So, am I making a useful contribution to the debate, or undermining it?

gardengeek I think I addressed all your questions apart from this one:

When you say Transwomen are women- which one are you saying?
- Transwomen are the gender of women, and some women also have the gender of women.
- Transwomen are the sex of women.

I am not saying either of those things. I am saying transwomen have the gender of women, and females who are not transmen are women.

Ereshkigal I swear by all that's holy I am not being obtuse. More likely thick. Can you please ask me whatever question it is you want me to answer in a different form?

I also don't want to have sex with gay transmen, because they are men, regardless of their biology. I accept you don't think transwomen are women. Can you accept that I do?

No. Not really. If you're not prepared to sleep with a transwomen. Because you have already said you prefer vulvas. Which biological women have. Not penis's. Which transwomen have. You sound ludicrous and deluded.

I only differentiate between trans and non-transwomen in context.

This is a weasel way of saying that you wouldn't sleep with them, and therefore do not believe them to be 'women'. (Which is fine, they aren't. They are trans women. Nothing wrong with that at all.) In other words, that you want to choose between when they're women and when they aren't, with the key deciding factor being how it impacts upon you.

Dad - You said that everyone agreed with you that there is a difference between a MTF trans person and a woman.

They really don't.

females who are not transmen are women.

Please tell me that's not your definition of 'woman'.

and females who are not transmen are women

I know you want us to say 'fuck off' at this but seriously?

Who the fuck do you think you are?

Female are women.

You can tell who is a women, when you want to fuck one eh?

females who are not transmen are women.

...and females who are not transmen are women.

So far we had non-trans women and not transmen to define "women".

We are only differentiating between woman and Transwomen in context.
The context of sex segregated spaces.
Not gender segregated spaces. Sex.

Another woman hater

and females who are not transmen are women

I have few non binary friends who would take issue with that statement.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts

I don't have a mismatch between my gender identity and my sex, and I was assigned male at birth, and the biology seems to fit. So I am a cisgender man.

At what age did this thought process go through your mind?

Is this a recent understanding that you are a man? Or did you know you were a boy aged say 3? What led you to this belief? I am really not believing that you thought 'Ooh I don't seem to have a gender mismatch, mummy tells me I as assigned male at birth and my biology seems to match - I must be a cis-gender boy' when you were 3 years old...

It's not a belief, it's an innate sense, just like sexuality. It's only if you have a mismatch between your gender identity and sex that you start to question things. You don't go through that nonsensical process.

For many reasons, I dislike a lot of the discourse by trans women complaining that straight men and gay women won't sleep with them. But they do have a fair point. If you are attracted to women but would not sleep with a transwoman, then clearly you don't think they are women. Which is very telling if you still insist that they are women, as long as the only risk is that men posing as trans women could enter female spaces.

Ereshkigal Dad - You said that everyone agreed with you that there is a difference between a MTF trans person and a woman.

They really don't.

OK, I'll take your word for it. I don't agree in any way.

AynRandTheObjectivist

I only differentiate between trans and non-transwomen in context.

This is a weasel way of saying that you wouldn't sleep with them, and therefore do not believe them to be 'women'. (Which is fine, they aren't. They are trans women. Nothing wrong with that at all.) In other words, that you want to choose between when they're women and when they aren't, with the key deciding factor being how it impacts upon you.

Please do not quote me out of context.

Please do not quote me out of context.

Bah ha ha. You already proved what you mean by 'context'!

Would you sleep with a transwoman? If not, why not?

You want to find out about views, go and find out really what the TRA think.

Seconded. Go onto Angels forum, or on Twitter and chat to some TRAs about this opinion.

AynRandTheObjectivist For many reasons, I dislike a lot of the discourse by trans women complaining that straight men and gay women won't sleep with them. But they do have a fair point. If you are attracted to women but would not sleep with a transwoman, then clearly you don't think they are women. Which is very telling if you still insist that they are women, as long as the only risk is that men posing as trans women could enter female spaces.

And I don't want to sleep with transmen because they are men. So do I secretly think they are women?

So would you sleep with a transwoman with an intact male genitaia?

Lets make this clear, yes or no, so we won't have to quote you out of context.

And I don't want to sleep with transmen because they are men. So do I secretly think they are women?

I don't care, it's not what I asked. Answer the question. Would you sleep with a transwoman? And if not, why not?

So would you sleep with a transwoman with an intact male genitaia?
Lets make this clear, yes or no, so we won't have to quote you out of context.

Yes please do answer this honestly