To say she can’t become a vegan yet

[funnyfairy360]

So my 10yr old DD has announced that she does not believe it is Ok to use animal products any more and from now on will not be eating/wearing/using anything made from animals or produced by animals. She does not even want to be ‘forced’ to sit on our leather couch. Now don’t get me wrong I’m all for her finding her own way in life but this is not just becoming vegetarian or going goth, becoming vegan is life changing and to be honest too inconvenient and expensive for me to make happen for her right now. She said she has the right to choose I say yes when she can pay for the products and cook the food herself .....she wants vegan friendly washing up liquid/shampoo/ soap/ clothes/this list could go on and on. None of the rest of us have any desire to go vegan.

OP my DD has just become vegan. She is older than yours and able to cook her own food. When we talked about it I told her the only thing she isn’t allowed to do is dictate what anyone else eats or uses.

So, I’m helping her work out what to eat and how to cook it and she is currently sitting on our leather sofa sharing her crisps with me.

I’ve eaten my delicious chicken dinner next to her while she had a salad she put together.

Get your DD to look up vegan shampoo if she wants that, and if it’s not too expensive buy it when you chose to but unless she is doing all the washing up then she gets no say over the washing up liquid. If she doesn’t want to sit on the leather sofa she has two options. Put a towel on it or sit on the floor. Personally I wouldn’t want her to sit on the floor, it’s more about showing her what happens when she thinks she can control other people/family members.

YABU. Vegan is a very cheap diet if you can be bothered to do a bit of research, BUT you have a point if she wants lots of specialised products. However having said that, if you buy say, vegan cheese for her, she'll no be eating the cheese you normally buy. So you won't be spending any more as long as you're careful about waste etc.

Also, a lot of vegan washing stuff etc is surprisingly cheap. Look up online. I assume she doesn't do the washing up but if she does, tell her she has to spend her pocket money/birthday money/whatever on it or change her to a vegan friendly household task (vacuuming)?

choices have consequences. never too early to learn that. She gets involved in her choice and shares the work it causes.

I see the usual babble on here about previous centuries. Tell me again what life expectancy was then? and before the mn hard of understanding jump, that does not mean that a vegan will die earlier. They do need fortfication , supplementation or defecation for the b12 though.

I'm glad my mother was more supportive in the 1970s when I was the only vegetarian in the family. It was much harder to find products then but she still did everything she could to support my beliefs. This meant phoning experts, going to look things up in the library and writing letters. With google at your fingertips it will be very easy.

@nokidshere that is the point. If she is old enough to make this decision then she is old enough to take responsibility for it (many ten year olds are capable of doing this BTW, it's not that difficult, just very time consuming. OP could teach her DD how to do it if she can't figure it out, although she should be able to, most ten year olds can use Google and do basic sums). If she us not old enough to deal with administrative load then she is not old enough to dictate to others

The point is that she isn't old enough to make this decision but that doesn't preclude the parent exploring it with her.

I would certainly help my child understand the implications of a lifestyle they want on other members of the family, on the available funds, and on the available time. If I was unable to,satisfy the request (the op says she has neither time nor money to implement the daughters wish) I would go,through with her the things we could achieve and she would have to wait for the rest.

What I wouldn't, and don't (there is one vegetarian in our household of 4) do is make them make their own meals (I always make veggie meals and add meat for the rest of us if we want it) or dictate what the rest of us can and cannot buy. When they have their own home and money they can be as ethical as they wish.

Its not the food that is expensive. Its the toiletries, the shoes (anyone tried to sources vegan shoes?!), it does all add up.

I would research how to get a healthy diet as a vegan. It isn't that easy. Certain things like B12 we struggle to absorb in non animal sources. Im a strict vegetarian, in some ways I'd like to be vegan, but for health reasons and social reasons I don't.

Also I would ask her how she feels about things like medicines - many of which are tested on animals and contain animal products. Its easy to think in black and white terms, its harder to find the point you are happy with in terms of balancing all the ethical issues. Im not sure she could do that at 10. I would encourage her to go veggie as a compromise for now. Do you have non leather furniture as well as the leather sofa? I really hate leather. (Hence the expensive vegan shoes!)

• or let them dictate what the rest of us do or don't do

Jains are lacto-vegetarian, although some in modern times are vegan. Historically they have always included dairy, which does make a significant difference in nutritional intake of micronutrients. So there'll be insufficient data so far of veganism across the generations in jain societies.

Thank you TheMythicalChicken

Ah, and thank you too kimcheesepickle for the update.

None of the Jains in my office eat dairy. And a couple don’t eat potatoes either (not quite sure of the reasons).

Tell her no, it's hard work being vegan.

I don't agree it's expensive but it is a complete pain in the arse a lot of the time and it wont be your daughter's pain in the arse it will be yours.

Being vegan is all about where your draw the line as an individual which is much easier to do if you are dishing out the orders to Mum rather than deciding where that line is yourself.

Also I would ask her how she feels about things like medicines

Or cars, or mobile phones or computers many of which contain animal products. This is what I mean by drawing lines, and I don't believe a 10 year old has the capacity to do that.

It would depend on your daughter's willingness to eat healthy vegan food. DS is a vegetarian which I accommodate. However I usually cook at least one vegan meal a week and those are usually the ones DS doesn't like much (bean chillis, Dhal, stews, homemade vegan burgers, Mediterranean roasted vegetables and cous cous etc)
DS dislikes a lot of veg and most pulses. He would live off pasta, risotto, potatoes in various forms, ready made veggie burgers (though he is fussy and rejects any with too many identifiable vegetables in), some limited Quorn products and pizza if he could. There is NO WAY I would let him go vegan until he could show he was a whole lot less fussy about pulses and veg generally

Agree with a compromise - that impacts her too, so yes to it meaning she has to go without certain luxuries.

Also at 10 she is PLENTY old enough to cook for herself too.

Let her have (as long as you can afford) vegan toiletries, new clothes as NEEDED, food (this could actually save you money).

But as a vegetarian myself of 30 years you also need to discuss with her that it's not actually possible unless she goes and lives on a farm where she grows her own crops inc those for textiles which she then makes into her own clothes, toiletries etc to be COMPLETELY vegan.

Surprisingly non vegan products:
Sugar
Chewing gum
Certain plastic products
Arts & craft supplies
Some fortified foods
Medicines (which also by law have to be tested on animals unfortunately)
Books
Smart phones 😉
Batteries...

What's her favourite foods that she may think are vegan/dishes that can be made vegan? Does she actually like green leafy veg, pulses, beans? Because to get a nourishing diet she'll have to eat them a lot! And no more chocolate and very few other sweets are even veggie let alone vegan.

And is she a good eater? Because vegan food is naturally low cal generally speaking so she'll need to eat more to get enough cals & fat.

"And I know people will disagree with me, but I don't think a child should go without animal proteins" can I ask why?

I wanted to go veggie at 14 but my mum who worked full time and did the bulk of the cooking understandably said no, as she wasn't cooking 2 meals every night nor sharing a kitchen while we cooked at the same time. Dad had said it was mum's decision as she did most of the cooking. But she said if I still wanted to at 16 she'd be supportive. I did and both parents were not only supportive spiritually but also practically.

Mum unbeknownst to me had spent the months before I turned 16 finding vegetarian products in our local shops (not easy in the 80's) and some easy/quick recipes. Dad had done similar, more recipes though. Both had also discussed and found information on nutrition queries they had.

They also asked that I get blood tests done, especially iron levels. I have very heavy periods (later Dx with endo) and they were worried about anaemia in particular. So they asked, well more suggested really, that I get my bloods checked before I went veggie and then again 6 months later, earlier if I was having symptoms that were worrying. GP practice were supportive here (and wanted to keep an eye on my iron levels anyway).

I already could cook quite a range of dishes as mum had taught us all to cook from being little and doing jellies and fairy cakes etc.

I was starting college so was going to be eating about 2 hours later than the rest of the family anyway due to the commute. So that meant the kitchen was free for me to use.

Both parents also if we went out to eat were very supportive in accommodating me restaurant wise but also when sometimes I had difficulty asserting myself if eg a supposed veggie dish I'd ordered turned up covered in meat gravy!

I was really surprised that years later both parents said they were very proud of me not only making the choice to be veggie, but also negotiating what was still then a very omnivorous uk. Dad went veggie himself for about 5 years, he still only rarely eats meat but this was more due to ageing/digestive issues.

"My daughter decided to be a vegetarian forty years ago. At that time it was bloody difficult" yes I went veg 30 years ago and there was still an awful lot of lard, cochineal and gelatin being used. It's changed not only due to veggies & vegans but also health concerns & producers being more open to making products available to certain religious groups who eg don't eat gelatin (and yes I'm aware it's not altruistic - it's so they can sell more, but that goes to show the power the consumer DOES have).

I don't sit on leather if I can avoid it, but that's because it sets off my eczema!

What she DOESN'T get to do is to impose HER personal, possibly temporary morals on others. She doesn't want to be forced to sit on the sofa she doesn't get to force anyone else to change what they eat/wear/uses.

I've screen shot the dhal recipe mumsastudent thanks 😉is that tinned lentils? What colour does it matter? I've only used lentils in soup (scots) so bit unsure on how to use them.

Gah - just a wee note - not all pasta is vegan.

"If you're cooking from scratch can't you make up a pot on the side with her stuff in but leave out the meat/cheese whatever or give her portion when it's at the "vegan stage" of cooking before adding what everyone else has and serving?" I get the sentiment but it's not that simple. If op did this for all dds meals her dd would soon be lacking certain nutrients. Whats being left out has to be replaced nutritionally.

Quorn have a decent range of vegan products

www.quorn.co.uk/products/vegan

But even outside of quorn there's usually a decent range of subs in most supermarkets, but you don't rely on subs alone.

www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplayView?catalogId=10123&langId=44&storeId=10151&krypto=G7uozrw8U4jQF1qPtXw384uCMxP1lgxkFlEVJUqCcAbFTthrnPjYEbiG3ZcrubjLIBEs%2BQJaSqXUwhlq%2FutarAcxxNLBD5%2BnZdHalsyXDwLhPQQznI%2B9swu39JR7nHo07N86tVOGP%2B1CI0yXw2bLoAkw5Avn7QIltxkyTZiL26w%3D

"As for the vegans out there, would you make a meat dish for a 10 year old if they announced they didn't want to be a vegan anymore? Thought not." Bit presumptuous! My dd is omnivore and I happily cook meat for her, I actually wish she ate a bit more as she doesn't like veggie foods that provide certain nutrients and doesn't like red meat (I suspect like me she has trouble digesting it).

So my 10yr old DD has announced that she does not believe it is Ok to use animal products any more and from now on will not be eating/wearing/using anything made from animals or produced by animals

Not read the whole thread, but meal wise I don't think it's that much of a difficulty to make meals for her.
Pasta, rice, lentil bolognese, stir fries, bean chilli etc - all easily vegan.
Start with the meals. If she's expecting you to replace anything like leather sofas though tell her the floor and cushions will do nicely for her as you're not replacing! Unless she's offering to pay

Gah - just a wee note - not all pasta is vegan.

True, dat - don't get the fresh pasta, that's nearly always egg pasta. Dried pasta fine as that's durum wheat.

Sometimes the dried pasta also contains egg, or milk products.

happinessiseggshaped I do not like to be derogatory but you talk shite, and if you want to inform folk on a subject, be knowlegagble about said subhect. I've been vegan since I was 18 and I am now mid thirties. I used to take a b12 supplement and I have been told since by a medic that my levels are far too high. I stopped supplementing. And to a previous poster, yes I am vegan and yes I do make non-vegan lunch or dinners when my step children come over, why wouldn't I?

Sometimes the dried pasta also contains egg, or milk product

Obviously check before buying, but dried pasta usually fine.
I check labels all the time with me being egg allergic/milk intolerant and DH being vegan and dried pasta is usually just basically your durum wheat and nothing else remotely not vegan.
Fresh pasta nearly always egg based though.

I didn't read all the comments because the misinformation about veganism annoys me greatly so I apologise if someone already mentioned it. All nutrition authorities agree that properly executed vegan diet is healthy for all life stages.

Veganism doesn't have to be expensive. Inecto shampoo and conditioner are £1.49 each for 400ml. Astonish products are vegan and cost about £1 per pop (shower cleaner, multipurpose cleaner, etc) and are really effective.

As for food, I would say she can be vegan as long as her diet is based around Dr Greger's Daily Dozen: legumes, wholegrains, veg and fruit. It's actually cheaper to eat that way than to use animal products. However, if she wants to eat expensive branded junk food (fake meats, fake dairy, overpriced vegan sweets and snacks) - it's a no-go. This way you will see whether she's serious about it or if it's just a fad for her.

That's funny - part of the reason I knew is cos one of my dds friends is lactose intolerant and when she was eating at ours a lot at one point I had to check.

I would meet her halfway and go vegetarian for food mostly.

We are not that fussed about meat here though so it wouldn't be a stretch.

I cook one meal each night, family can take it or leave it. I don't have the time (or the inclination/patience) to be cooking multiple dishes or spending ages sorting out vegan products and would not be doing so.

When she is in charge of her own household she can be in charge of her own household, for now she needs to accept that she doesn't get to decide everything.

I’d allow her to go vegan but insist she helps with meal prep.

We make a vegan lentil curry in the slow cooker sometimes. Great source of protein, about 15 mins of prep, cooks about 8 batches and we have change from £10.

@perper it is true. Stomach conditions were monitored in a university lab in London by someone who'd ate red meat, that person was monitored monthly to see how far it had advanced, two years later, remnants of that burger was still there, in the gut.