To applaud Aldi and Lidl

[jobjobjob]

For closing stores early if England reach the World Cup on Sunday?

I think it's great to allow staff to be able to watch a great sorting event. They normally work very unsocial hours over back holidays etc.

None of us are going to really suffer if they close an hour early are we?

I hope that the other supermarkets follow suit.

From a business point of view I still think it's dumb because there will be 1000s and 1000s of people not watching

Well we could ignore the fact they being a multinational they would have run the numbers and seen it was cost effective.

The fact you apparently see this from a business spective shows you are not as in the know as you like to perceive,

Still, good look in your facebook selling, you will smash the corporate barrier at some point I don't doubt!

@NC172938

Can’t believe I’m having to explain myself yet again. We plan to finish at half 5 to 6 tomorrow. Most staff work from 8-4, they aren’t affected, then we have another load of staff who work 5-5 roughly, unless traffic is bad they won’t be affected. Then we have office staff who do all different hours, they have contracts, so are being paid if tomorrow’s hours affect them, which I think only affects one person who I know will leave early no matter what for the football. Then we have staff who do 10-7:30/8:30. They are the only ones affected. They have the chance to come in early on another day, or work weekends if they wish, which I predict they won’t anyway. We aren’t closing tomorrow we are just finishing early so everyone can watch England play in the World Cup semi final!

@tiggyt

That doesn't explain anything.

"They have the chance to come in early on another day, or work weekends if they wish, which I predict they won’t anyway." - This is the whole point. I'm assuming the 10-7:30/8:30 staff are contractors otherwise they wouldn't need to work weekends or early to make up the money.

My point is that some of those people would rather work tomorrow than work at the weekend.

You've got the right to take hours off them, but the responsibility to think about whether that's fair. What I'm saying is that it's unfair on those contractors who a) don't care about football and b) thought they would be working till 7:30/8:30 as normal, but now aren't and instead have to get up early or sacrifice some of the weekend to get their earnings, even though they'd rather work during the normal working week.

As you say the others don't matter because the times don't clash. But I've never been talking about them, I've been talking specifically about the contractor ones who are losing pay for something they don't necessarily want to do.

@Justanotherlurker

"The fact you apparently see this from a business spective shows you are not as in the know as you like to perceive"

I don't think that's a very fair judgement of the other poster really. Businesses come in all shapes and sizes and the UK's private sector runs all the time, 24/7, World Cup or not. I run a business (I am a contractor some days, and a typical business owner on others) and I will probably work through some of the match. I'll also watch some of it when I'm done.

Just because a business isn't Lidl or a corner shop run by a football fan doesn't mean it's not a business.

@NC172938

This is so pointless now. You have no idea whether the ones that are affected wants to watch the football or not. Reason why they won’t want to do extra time, is due to the fact that they are always so desperate to leave as early as they can on a normal day, nothing to do with free time. I completely stand with my decision, and I know a lot of other companies similar to mine will be doing the exact same thing tomorrow and I think it’s a good choice (depending on what the company is though).

@NC172938

The reason contractors are paid more isn't to cover their clients/employers' decisions to enforce random days off. It's because they have to pay their own holiday pay, sick pay, pension, tax and NI. They get paid the equivalent of what the employer actually pays to a full time staff member once all non-salary costs are included - so it looks like more, but it's actually not.

Yes, holidays. Which you use for your leisure activities.

My point is that it doesn't matter if the reason is a tired boss or the football. When contractors are involved it is different, and pointing it out isn't pissing on people's chips.

An office being given time off for a once-in-a-blue-moon event, especially when the contractor is given the opportunity to make the time up and therefore not lose any money is not even close to the scenario you describe. Not even close.

They’re German so more practiced at World Cup finals.

@notdaddycool, that's a brilliant comment!

@tiggyt

Yes and neither do you because you said you don’t give a toss about what your teams do outside of work. So unless you were lying and do actually know the ins and outs of your contractors’ leisure time, you’ve no idea whether they are genuinely happy to be being deprived of their normal working hours or whether they’re just going along with your order to leave work early and lose a few hours of pay so they can keep the peace. Contractors often do this in order to avoid losing work in the long run. I would ask you to think about whether that might be happening here.

@jengnr

They are not being “given” time off. That only applies to full employees who are given it in addition to a pre-existing number of days. For contractors, they are being forced to take a day off and give up their weekends to get their earnings. Given that you didn’t explain how, in your view, a person in the example I gave should deal with it if they lose a day of sub-minimum wage, I can only presume you don’t want to think about how the World Cup would affect a low paid contractor. I guess that says more than you than it does about me.

Not everyone wants to watch the World Cup.

Perhaps a skeleton staff approach would be better for the people whose lives aren’t ruled by football?

@Jengnr

Also, what's your point about holidays? If you believe that contractors should use their self-funded holidays for their leisure activities as you state, then why don't you support them being able to choose when they take that holiday/leisure time? Why should their self-funded time off work be structured around the football, as is the case for tiggy's contractors - is it because you like the football, so can't comprehend why somebody else doesn't want their time off then?

This does not happen to contractors "once in a blue moon". You're just saying that because you yourself are swept up in World Cup fever, when in fact - shockingly - not everybody has the same perspective on life as jengnr. The horror! This actually happens to contractors all the time even when the World Cup isn't on, if you can bear to believe it. It happens when bosses decide they want to fuck off on holiday and close the office, it happens when employers decide to "focus on strategy" for a month and lay their contractors off, it happens when line managers go on holiday and want to save a few quid for a while, it happens when managers decide that work which has come in recently can actually be forgotten about for a couple of weeks before it gets distributed to the contractors.

Employers have the right to do all of this, but it doesn't mean that every contractor hours decision is fair and just.

To somebody who is low paid or is a zero-hours contractor, it is actually a massive kick in the teeth to be told "Oh we all want to watch the footie, so don't work today. If you need money for your rent then give up your weekend instead".

Well I could explain the point again but since you’re so clearly determined to miss is, over dramatise, talk about things that are nothing to do with it and chuck in a couple of mild personal attacks there isn’t an awful lot of point is there?

Contactors get paid more to cover these eventualities. That’s contracting. (Yes, my husband is one and no, he doesn’t earn much). An office closing for a couple of hours for such a rare event (the last time was 28 years ago) and giving anyone who wants/needs to the opportunity to make the time up is neither here nor there.

Keep banging that drum though. You could do it in time to that fucking bellend band tonight.

PS Not especially arsed about England. Just shock horrir can see someone else’s pov and don’t see this scenario as a the terrible one you’re painting it as.

Op don't listen to the ne'er sayers on here
It's coming home it's coming home fingers firmly crossed

Justanotherlurker I worked in retail for almost two decades so I do know a little bit about the business side of how retail works.
I don't sell on Facebook so I am not sure what you meant by that.
I have said in a previous post (or possibly on the other thread) that as long as the staff still get paid and this doesn't count as part of their annual leave then if that's the choice of the shops to close then that's their choice. If I was a staff member losing money and part of my holiday I would be very very pissed off.

They could probably have easily found enough staff who don't give a toss about the football not to do this.

Agreed!

They could probably have easily found enough staff who don't give a toss about the football not to do this.

As a manager the admin involved in querying staff, collating responses, sitting round & re-jigging shifts, days etc in addition to the normal workload isn't something I'd do.

Much easier all round to give all the time off - those that don't like football can do something else with their free time.

And if customers can't organise themselves enough to survive without a supermarket for a couple of hours it's really not my concern!!

It's getting out of hand, quite honestly. Labour suggesting a bank holiday if we win the World Cup, a petition to get it debated in Parliament for fuck's sake.

England cricket team win the Ashes, there is no petition to get Parliament to declare a bank holiday. Andy Murray got to the final of Wimbledon, first British man in decades and decades, stores didn't close early to allow people to watch it - not even in Scotland!

@ShatnersWig hadn't heard about potential bank holiday that would be awesome! Fingers crossed!

@SlartiAardvark totally agree, utter rubbish that non football fans would be queuing up to change shift!

@Monty27 I hope so, but feeling very nervous all of a sudden!

@jobjobjob Almost certainly won't happen. If the petition reaches 100,000 it has to be raised in Parliament and I think they've probably got other things already planned and to be debated tomorrow and Friday even if we won tonight. The effect on business would be quite significant too. I don't see why it's necessary. The match is on Sunday at 4 pm. I see no reason why people can't go to work on Monday. Or does every single person who watches football have to get totally trollied to make it impossible to work the next day?

Sorry, if you like football, great, enjoy it while it is on, but it shouldn't have to affect the whole country the next day, especially when at least half the population don't watch it.

@ShatnersWig my original post was about one hour for two supermarkets...football haters have to go OTT!

I've no doubt it won't earn a bank holiday but honestly the misery of some people and the want to whinge about positives is draining!

Enjoy avoiding the football and moan about the supporters, you seem to get pleasure from that!

ITS COMING HOME!

@jobjobjob Football lovers have gone OTT, so why shouldn't football haters? Fair's fair!

Labour suggesting a bank holiday if we win the World Cup

That's just daft, they'll do anything to try & claw back voters though.

But it's a different issue to people knocking off early on match day...

I have no particular interest in watching the football. It'll be on in our house regardless of who is in the final.as OH will want to watch it.
However, I won't be fretting about losing an hour's shopping time one every 50 years or so either.