To applaud Aldi and Lidl

[jobjobjob]

For closing stores early if England reach the World Cup on Sunday?

I think it's great to allow staff to be able to watch a great sorting event. They normally work very unsocial hours over back holidays etc.

None of us are going to really suffer if they close an hour early are we?

I hope that the other supermarkets follow suit.

I would just like to do my weekly shop on a Sunday evening

Well technically speaking, 3 until 4 is the afternoon. So them shutting early isn't an issue as they are staying open in Scotland and cheering on whoever will be losing against England, because as @Fluffyears has already alluded to, it's definitely coming home

@Justanotherlurker

"It is our national sport" When people should and shouldn't have time off is absolutely nothing to do with relatively popularity of certain events. Time off is deliberately designed to be individual so that people can enjoy it when THEY most value it - not when the nation most values it, or when the sport that most people watch most value it.

@tiggyt

I completely agree that you shouldn't have to know what your employees like and dislike.

But that's exactly what you are doing - you seem to know everything about how many people in your company watch the football, for example, so you clearly do "give a toss about my staffs interests".

What you mean is that you do give enough of a toss about days off provided it's for football, and you don't give a toss if it's for something else.

Why should your football fan employees get paid time off to pursue their interests, while contractors who don't like football have to work at the weekend to get their earnings?

I'm a contractor and I can guarantee that your non-football-fan contractors will be resentful about your decision. They will just be lying to you and telling you it's a great idea.

@Sirzy

Sports direct are staying open though and will be stocking up on france/belgium tops in anticipation.

I thought cricket was our national sport?

Or maybe rugger?

@NC172938

Majority of my staff want to watch the football, I know this as I sent a company text message before the decision was made asking how many people would like to finish early. Reason why I sent the message, as in previous World Cup/euros staff have asked to go home early to watch the match as they like to watch England play. I had 5 employees not turn up to work the day England was playing their first World Cup match a few weeks ago, as they wanted to guarantee they get to go home early, considering they have to transport our lorries to the sites and back again to our ‘base’, and with our jobs in London, traffic isn’t the best. If we didn’t finish early tomorrow, I could predict at least 20 people wouldn’t be in, so financially its best to finish early.

I'm not a football fan, I hate it but even I want England to win.
There's some right miserable fun sponging twats on here lately.
Even if not a football fan,it's not hard to get into the atmosphere and enjoy a bit of positivity for once.

I’m preparing for quite a few people to not be in Thursday, and if we get to the final, Monday is a complete write off!

@tiggyt - Well it's your company and you know best. I respect that you will have it all sussed out, although I would disagree with your decision if I worked there as a contractor because I'd be sat there pissed off that I had to come in on a Saturday through no fault of my own.

Did you fire the five who took a day off for the football, though? From your post it sounds like you might not have done. Again I appreciate that it is up to you, but it would just piss me off if I worked at your company and I turned up for work to find that others had just decided not to bother.

If you would fire me for not showing up at work when I was scheduled to because I was going to Tiddlywinks World Cup/bobsledding gala/whatever else but you wouldn't fire a whole group of others for missing work to watch the World Cup, that's not right.

It just seems from your posts like your company culture favours the majority, and while I know I sound like a fun sponge, that isn't right because rights and responsibilities in a workplace should be equally accessed/upheld by all.

@NC172938

When people should and shouldn't have time off is absolutely nothing to do with relatively popularity of certain events

But it is when you are trying to bring comparisons of Wimbledon and or niche sports into the mix.

This is first and foremost a business decision as they would have seen footfall statistics during last saturday and have made a business decision of closing an hour earlier in most cases (obv excl Scotland) as it will save on some overheads and generate some feel good factor amongst some of the staff.

The fact Lidl/Aldi and others are also doing the same with much less angst in the other nations indicates that the raw numbers speak for themselves.

Football being the national sport and also being the most watched world wide sport tied into the fact that England have done far better than our own "nationalist/jingoist" media predicted is why the businesses are planning ahead, nothing more than a pure numbers game.

And if we do lose tomorrow night, we still have to play at the weekend and it will still generate feel good factor, so all these anti-football/england posters need to hold back on their self flagellating "glad england lost" posts on wednesday night/thursday morning.

@NC172938

No I didn’t sack the 5 who didn’t turn up, as the industry my company is in, it’s extremely common for staff to have a few days off without any notice. We sack those who take regular days off, like the ones who have gone on a two day bender, and won’t turn up to work for 4 days. I don’t discriminate to those who aren’t interested in the football, if that’s what you’re trying to make out.

@NC172938 Are you having a laugh? If folk want time off for anything they only have to ask, just like everyone else does.

This is a bit of an extra because it’s massive. And nobody HAS to go in on the Saturday but they can if they want.

I can’t believe how bloody miserable some people are being about this. I’m not that arsed about England (United fan) but ffs. Tomorrow is massive, if we get through we’re in the World Cup Final. That’s a big deal for anyone, for a team as notoriously shit as England it’s ENORMOUS. And consequently loads of folk want to watch it. And employers are being kind enough to facilitate that.

The World Cup is once every four years. We’ll probably all be long dead by the time England have another chance like this, lets just crack on with it eh?

@Justanotherlurker

Yes I get that and I see your point, but not every business is going to close?

If it was really a raw numbers game and it was entirely down to footfall and market forces, then all businesses everywhere would shut down on Wednesday and Sunday because there would be no money to be made. But they won't, because some people will still shop during the match. Tesco is still opening for example and that is a firm which obviously thinks long and hard about how/whether it will make profits. As PPs have said, there are other reasons why Lidl and Aldi and any other business might close (staff morale, PR, etc)

Also while I do see your point, my point to tiggyt is specifically about the contractor issue. I'm saying that I would be pissed off if I was a contractor at tiggy's firm, because I would have to choose between working the weekend or losing cash - extra annoying as I don't even like football to begin with.

My point is that this isn't right, it sounds boring but these things are really important because they impact morale, performance, staff turnover etc.

@Jengnr

The point is specifically that tiggy has contractors. The contractors at tiggy's firm might not ask for a day off every time they want one like an employee would, because a day off means losing money.

Fine, that's how contracting works, but it's then a kick in the teeth when tiggy turns round and says they have to have a day off and lose money/work weekend instead, especially if football is something they don't like.

If you don't like football then in that situation a contractor would just think: "well if I'm going to lose cash, I'd rather lose it on a day of my choosing". That isn't "kind", unfortunately

Also FYI it's really, really not a big deal for everyone as you say. 20 million people watched England vs Sweden and the adult population of Britain is over 40 million. More than half the people didn't watch because they weren't interested or they work at a workplace that's not tiggy's firm during the football, so they felt like they had to turn up to work as normal

I don't really care if I sound like a fun sponge, these things matter because it's about a worker's right to have individual leisure lives that aren't unduly influenced by their bosses or the majority.

Ironically I’m now going to Lidl to do the weekly shop!

@Jux

No, we invented modern football, rugby, cricket, these sports were obviously played in some form or other by nations long before we set a standard of rules that is still applied today, however it is not controversial to say football is our national sport, and generally the world wide sport. The numbers speak for themselves, however hard that is to grasp.

The only people nit picking about our status in the modern game of football are the avid non football fans, there is a reason as to why our football leagues generate billions of money in TV rights across the globe which means that our footballers are overpaid (there is an argument for that deep down).

Some of this "overpaid" stance however is from an underlying stance that money does not guarantee success like it can do in other sports.

Other nations happily point out that we gave the world football, rugby and cricket and have been generally shit at it, it is only the hand wringing type who apparently look at nuance of statements in any other argument but are so afraid of nationalist support when it is England that they gloss over the fact that the other four nations are also experiencing the same situations of popular supermarkets closing due to the world cup final on sunday if that home nation is involved as being just an inherent "british nationalist" thing.

@justanotherlurker don't make me tit punch you! Can we have a better phrase!

Yes - Aldi and Lidl should be applauded for this - any attempt by any employer to recognize that their staff have a life to be enjoyed outside of work is welcome by me. I'm a fully-signed up cynic, with years of headspace given to finding that 'angle', but although I'm sure both businesses have crunched there numbers and deemed it viable, it's a very good precedent to set.

Btw - if England make it to the World Cup Final (which I hope they do) - I think a lot more businesses, hospital wards, etc and the people that work in them will be making alterations to the 'normal' that day.

@NC172938 When I said a big deal for anyone I meant for the teams. Even if you’re Brazil and used to it the WCF is a very big deal. And 20 million people watching it is clearly a very big deal.

Losing money for time off is what contractors do. It’s why they are paid better than their counterparts. Complaining about this once-in-a-blue-moon scenario is utterly ridiculous, especially when they are being given the option to make it up if they want to.

It just goes to show that somebody will always go out of their way to try and piss on someone else’s chips.

Jeez there's some right miserable sods on here!

It's the world cup! It's an event.

My family love football and aren't beer-swilling louts as some on MN would lead you to believe.
I save my smashing up of shops for test cricket.

I think it's great they're able to watch the match.

@NC172938

If we are to take todays statements at face value then they are being preemptive at the numbers game, but, as with everything commercial they have just got in there first and the other participants are waiting until the result of tomorrow. Its marketing 101 at this stage, the other 4 nations are already having the same scenarios but with admittedly less blowback as there isn't this self loathing undercurrent.

Tesco and Aldi will naturally have a different footfall rate , and being the last hour in england will have swayed the numbers somewhat. If England are to win tomorrow night there will be a lot more following suit

What some people are trying to downplay is the interest in the world cup if we do get to the final, a lot of posters try to insinuate that this is somehow forced bad nationalism of the english and ignore the fact that belgium/france are on comparative shut down tonight, and Croatia will be all watching the semi final tomorrow night.

Basically I think as long as those missing an hour of work still get paid for that time (because they haven't chosen this hour out of their annual leave) then whatever really. From a business point of view I still think it's dumb because there will be 1000s and 1000s of people not watching the match who turn up to shop and find the shop closed they will simply spend their money somewhere else. Round my way the standard Sunday trading times are 11-5 or 10.30-4.30 so that is an hour and a half or two hours of trading lost. Often once the stores are closed staff are there to tidy up and re stock. Does staff have to come back in after the match is over? Generally shops can't get rid of customers when it's time to close. The amount of "I just need to pop in quick for one thing" is - well - all the time. Oh well. It's those retailers choice. I will be finding something more interesting than football or shopping on Sunday to do anyway.

I think a lot more businesses, hospital wards, etc and the people that work in them will be making alterations to the 'normal' that day.

because of a football match? With hospital appointments running 7 days a week, Sunday included, to catch up with the horrendously long waiting list, a sporting event is not a valid reason to change anything.

@Jengnr

The reason contractors are paid more isn't to cover their clients/employers' decisions to enforce random days off. It's because they have to pay their own holiday pay, sick pay, pension, tax and NI. They get paid the equivalent of what the employer actually pays to a full time staff member once all non-salary costs are included - so it looks like more, but it's actually not.

There are also contractors working in low paid jobs. My friend is a low paid worker in the media industry: she is a contractor on £18k even though she has (very long) set working hours, a desk and fixed responsibilities. (Her firm doesn't do full employment at her pay grade, because there are enough young people living at home in the city she works in who could afford to take her place if she left. So the employer gets away with it)

Assuming 235 working days a year, a day's pay for her is £76.59 before she's even put aside holiday pay, sick pay, pension, tax, etc. So her real-terms pay is about £60 a day which is under minimum wage for her hours and age.

Her employer recently announced a whole team compulsory Friday off because the boss was tired from a busy week. The boss presented it as a great and wonderfully kind idea just as you are here, @Jengnr. But my friend lost a full day of pay with just four days' notice. That is the difference between a nice month and a barely-scraping-by month. It adds insult to injury that she then struggles if she takes a day off when she pleases, because she doesn't earn enough for proper fucking holiday pay anyway.

My point is that it doesn't matter if the reason is a tired boss or the football. When contractors are involved it is different, and pointing it out isn't pissing on people's chips.

Yes while it is perfectly legal and everyone has consented to it, shutting up shop with a few days' notice is also a choice that employers like tiggyt and my friend's boss make. What I'm saying is that they should exercise that responsibility with caution. Yes I agree that if Tiggy's firm is in an industry where all the contractors are paid £50k then it's a bit different, but we don't know that - and it's still shit for the contractor, albeit less so.

It's only football, folks!