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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think people genuinely hate England?

999 replies

beautifulblue · 08/07/2018 22:48

Is anyone else sick of seeing the anger/hatred towards England in the World Cup? This 'anyone but england' mentality from almost every other country is disheartening honestly. I've seen every excuse under the sun, we haven't played a proper team yet, 200,000 signatures to re-play the Colombia match because apparently that wasn't fair, blaming a few rowdy fans for not wanting England to win. I'm especially surprised by the amount of Scottish/Irish/Welsh people who seem to feel like this (on social media) i know we'd so be routing for our neighbours if it was the other way round! So... AIBU to think everyone just friggin hates England?!

OP posts:
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5
Jaxhog · 09/07/2018 11:13

How about we hate the Italians for all the Roman atrocities?

SoddingUnicorns · 09/07/2018 11:17

@Clandestino if you’d phrased it that the English people you’d encountered had left you feeling disillusioned or upset, that would have been different though.

Jaxhog · 09/07/2018 11:17

I don't hate England but I don't expect lot of class and manners from the English
I've always found fellow English people to be extremely polite. We say sorry all the time, and queue, for goodness sake. There are some who are not, but you find that everywhere.

As for class, I thought the English are always accused of being obsessed with class? (willfully misunderstanding).

rosesandflowers1 · 09/07/2018 11:18

So, it isn't vulgar to talk about enormous salaries but it is vulgar to specify a logarithmic range?!

My point was that there was no financial necessity and, in fact, that we are comfortable to the point that there would literally be no positive impact on my DC's lives. The salary is directly pertinent here, as well as its size, so no, it is not vulgar.

Randomly throwing in that your DH also makes a large amount of money, adding the specific amount of figures, for no reason other than petty oneupmanship is lacking in class.

Fortunately for us, we are also able to prioritise our children in addition to being in paid employment, like many millions of working parents across the world.

As I certainly hope that you do. But that in no way gives you the right to judge me for making choices that are the best for my family, particularly when there is impacting issues there that aren't in your very short list.

buttonmoonb4tea · 09/07/2018 11:21

I’m of mixed heritage, one of my parents are English. Even though I’m happy that England have done well in this World Cup I can’t help but feel a that other countries who don’t like England have a point. The English fans (typical lager swilling) are obnoxious and entitled. They’re intimidating and resort to thuggish antics such as damaging/destroying property all in the name of celebration Hmm.

I also notice the number of players in this squad who are BAME is far greater than previous squads. I think this has something to do with how well they’re doing. They’re good players. But previous squads just haven’t had the numbers of black and minority ethnic players to represent what England actually is now. It’s refreshing. But that’s probably another thread maybe.

OliviaPopeRules · 09/07/2018 11:21

How about we hate the Italians for all the Roman atrocities?

Ah an Italian guy explained this to me once. The Romans were just trying to build communities and help people whereas as the English (note not the British) colonised countries and were evil etc.

Grin Grin Grin

OliviaPopeRules · 09/07/2018 11:24

The English fans (typical lager swilling) are obnoxious and entitled. They’re intimidating and resort to thuggish antics such as damaging/destroying property all in the name of celebration Again you are talking about a couple of hundred people versus 30m + people watching the game and celebrating. It's a total generalisation.

JaneyEJones · 09/07/2018 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IcedPurple · 09/07/2018 11:25

The English fans (typical lager swilling) are obnoxious and entitled. They’re intimidating and resort to thuggish antics such as damaging/destroying property all in the name of celebration

Only a small minority these days, thankfully. How many England fans have been arrested in Russia?

I also notice the number of players in this squad who are BAME is far greater than previous squads.

You must not be familiar with past England squads, featuring the likes of John Barnes, Rio Ferdinand and Ian Wright, to name but a few non-white England players from times past.

But previous squads just haven’t had the numbers of black and minority ethnic players to represent what England actually is now.

Are you suggesting that players be selected not for their talent, but for their ethnic origin? What would be impact of that, considering that about 8 out of 10 English people are of White British ethnicity.

Clandestino · 09/07/2018 11:26

@Jaxhog, queueing and saying sorry the whole time isn't about being polite just like opening a door or holding a coat for a woman isn't about respecting women.
And once again, I don't hate the English. Hate is a very strong word and it involves some personal emotional involvement which I personally don't have. I think the word is being misused a lot.

buttonmoonb4tea · 09/07/2018 11:27

Oliviapoperules sorry I should have said that these are a minority. Yes you’re right. Nevertheless this minority are intimidating and it really isn’t a good look for England.

You can see why other countries may generalise and not like the English when they see this sort of behaviour.

IcedPurple · 09/07/2018 11:27

Again you are talking about a couple of hundred people versus 30m + people watching the game and celebrating. It's a total generalisation.

Surely you must have noticed by now that the most lazy generalisations and stereotypes are quite OK when it comes to England and the English?

rosesandflowers1 · 09/07/2018 11:27

Ah an Italian guy explained this to me once. The Romans were just trying to build communities and help people whereas as the English (note not the British) colonised countries and were evil etc

While I wouldn't phrase it like that - the Romans were atrocious - is he clumsily trying to say that the Romans practised syncretism and the British didn't?

It did make the Romans more popular with the people they took over, which is why their Empire lasted longer.

SoddingUnicorns · 09/07/2018 11:28

@JaneyEJones firstly, I’ve repeatedly mentioned the Old Firm while talking about football violence, secondly talking about sour grapes (when in reality you can’t hack a ribbing) and then making a joke about Scottish football sums it up doesn’t it?

A Scot says anything about England and we’re all the bastards under the sun, but also fair game.

Oh and we know we’re shite at football, that joke bothers nobody bar Rangers fans. Grin

runningkeenster · 09/07/2018 11:30

Other countries don't have a culture of their fans rioting and punching their wives after a football match

And the evidence for this is?

Male violence is male violence. I don't think, in fact I know, it's not a peculiarly English disease.

IcedPurple · 09/07/2018 11:30

It did make the Romans more popular with the people they took over, which is why their Empire lasted longer.It did make the Romans more popular with the people they took over, which is why their Empire lasted longer.

Yes, I'm sure the Roman empire was hugely popular with the Gauls, what with their towns being starved into submission and their people killed by the hundreds of thousands.

cjferg · 09/07/2018 11:31

Haven't read whole thread as it's 24 pages, so not sure if this has been said.

I think British colonialism is still relevant in this discussion because it is still relevant in this country to this day. There is this shameless attuitude from the government that it wasn't that bad to take over most of the world. So we had a few slaves, is it really so indefensible?

This is evident in everything from the Windrush scandal to the fact that the taxpayer has until very recently been paying for all those innocent slave owners to be reimbursed for loss of property when slavery was 'abolished'. And our government thought that was something to be proud of. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/11/lets-end-delusion-britain-abolished-slavery

These delusions of grandeur, that Britain, but really England, because it's only England that really have a say in Britain, is a cut above the rest of the world are still very much alive and kicking and it comes out in everything from Brexit to the way English people often act when abroad.

People saying that Germany don't receive similar disdain from the rest of the world because of Hitler, etc. don't realise that Germany has, for want of a better word, repented. That will never happen again in Germany. They actually teach their school kids what happened in the war and the real part Germany played. In Britain all we get is a whitewashed version of our 'glorious' history that glosses shamelessly over the bad parts and over emphasises the good parts.

OliviaPopeRules · 09/07/2018 11:31

While I wouldn't phrase it like that - the Romans were atrocious - is he clumsily trying to say that the Romans practised syncretism and the British didn't?

I think he was just talking shite in case that wasn't clear from my post. Can't see how one empire is any better than another but didn't bother arguing as really someone with these views cannot be reasonable! He was a lovely guy, just had ridiculous views on the roman empire.

buttonmoonb4tea · 09/07/2018 11:32

also notice the number of players in this squad who are BAME is far greater than previous squads.

You must not be familiar with past England squads, featuring the likes of John Barnes, Rio Ferdinand and Ian Wright, to name but a few non-white England players from times past.

But previous squads just haven’t had the numbers of black and minority ethnic players to represent what England actually is now.

Are you suggesting that players be selected not for their talent, but for their ethnic origin? What would be impact of that, considering that about 8 out of 10 English people are of White British ethnicity.

Iced I am familiar with previous squads. I’m completely aware of the players you have mentioned and think that players should be picked based on talent of course. But you may not be aware that there has been rife Rasicsm in football in previous times. Are you telling me honestly, that given this, that managers would previously have picked black players over their white counterparts based on ability. C’mon get your head out of your arse.

SoddingUnicorns · 09/07/2018 11:33

Other countries don't have a culture of their fans rioting and punching their wives after a football match

They do.

IcedPurple · 09/07/2018 11:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

buttonmoonb4tea · 09/07/2018 11:35

Cjferg You said it so much better than I could. I have to resort to educating my children who are BME black history as I can’t rely on mainstream education to do this. And it’s important that they know.

dementedma · 09/07/2018 11:36

Sky news (UK) is leading with Novachok poisoning, Brexit, Prince Louis' christening, Brit death in Ibiza and expansion of British Navy to counteract Russian terrorist threat. Sky news (International) is leading with Thai Cave rescue.
Not seeing English Football "all over the news" at the expense of anything else.

topcat1980 · 09/07/2018 11:36

There are a lot of people commenting here who know naff all about football and are making sweeping statements like they do.

ElBurroSinNombre · 09/07/2018 11:36

Have to say that the lager swilling brutishness of English fans is slightly disturbing for me as an English football fan. I just don't like excessive nationalism however it manifests itself.

I was bought up in Blackpool, where we used to have the annual 'Glasgow fortnight'. All factories in Glasgow would shut down and thousands of Glaswegians would come to Blackpool for their holidays. That fortnight was renowned in the town for the drunken, rampaging, excessive and violent actions of some of the people who visited. Is it right for me to then say 'I don't like all Scots because of this example' - no it would just be wrong and its stereotyping. I have since met many Scots who would not behave like that under any circumstances, most are courteous and kind like the vast majority of English people. To digress - these days it seems it is the Young Farmers who cause that sort of mayhem in the town.

On the multi cultural aspect of the squad - it's great. And the fact that it is not even commented on is IMO progress. In my area, and from what I can tell, people of all races and backgrounds are supporting England.