*possible trigger topic* AIBU paedophile in the family

[Anon112233]

Looking for some advice on a difficult situation.

My husband's brother is a convicted paedophile. He was charged with serious sexual offences against a family member and was released from prison earlier this year.

My husband and his family have all forgiven his brother and had contact whilst in prison and continue see him regularly now.

My husband and I have a baby and, to date, I have refused to allow my brother-in-law to meet her. However my husband is becoming increasingly frustrated by this and wants his brother to be allowed to meet his niece and for us all to attend family events together so long as he is always supervised.

I'm very reluctant to agree to this. Although we can easily supervise contact now as our child is not yet mobile, when she grows up she will move around the house by herself and, short of trailing after her (I'm picturing waiting outside the bathroom etc!!), I don't see how we can ensure constant supervision. Additionally, as she grows up I don't want to have to explain to my child the reason she can never be alone with her uncle!

Also, my husbands parents have regular contact with my brother-in-law and clearly do not consider him to be a threat. If they have seen that we allow our child to have occasional contact, how can I ensure that they do think it's okay to let him have contact when babysitting etc?? I feel like a blanket 'no contact' rule is more straightforward than 'he is allow to have contact when we are there but we don't trust you to protect her'.

If I decide to continue with no contact, am I within my rights as a parent to make that decision even if my husband disagrees?? How do I explain my feelings to him/help him understand my point of view when he clearly loves and trusts his brother and would like him to be involved in our lives? Do you think I am being unreasonable? Would occasional supervised contact be such a bad thing?

Would ss consider my husband and I to have put our child at risk by allowing supervised contact? And is there anyone we need to inform if supervised contact does take place?

Sorry, lots of questions and they may not make sense but my head is a bit jumbled trying to process this!! Any advice would be gratefully received xx

Your instincts are right OP. Some good advice on here; contact the probation service and tell them BIL has been in contact with the victim at family events. That poor girl.

If your DH wont back down, this would be divorce territory for me, and I’d be refusing contact with DH’s family until an order was in place banning contact with BIL.

What NoNarnas said.

I would honestly be concerned about your DH ability to protect your DC from future emotional and physical harm as his decision making on this is so poor and not in the best interests of his DD.

I would worry what other poor decisions he would make that risk harm to your DC in the future (not just this type of abuse but there are all sorts of situations that as a parent you need to have the ability to risk assess and put your children first in order to protect them). It’s easy for you so step in when they are babies but it gets much harder as they get older.

I also think that the fact these paedophiles are happy to socialise with family knowing that everyone knows what they have done is a massive red flag that they actually feel no remorse at all. Jesus Christ , I would be embarrassed to see family if I'd been caught shoplifting let alone abusing children !!!!

How do they have the fucking temerity to show their face ?

deehit why are you visiting your uncle in prison? Seems bizarre as an adult that your DM is forcing you. I would be NC now, then there will be no confusion when he is released as it sounds like your family will behave the same as OP. If your already being forced to visit him in prison I am sure the same will be expected when he is released. Feel sorry for your cousin

Several people have made the very good point that as your child grows older, you cannot maintain the level of supervision necessary at family gatherings.

Remember that we are talking about grooming, not one-off forcible encounters of the sort a stranger in the park might commit. The game plan on the part of the paedophile is to fool the child into thinking the contact is (a) within the bounds of what's normal between adults and children and (b) is consensual.

And also remember that paedophiles of this type are to play the long game, the very, very long game. (Hell, some spend years training for professions simply because those professions will bring them into contact with children - think of the teachers, doctors, sports coaches prepared to do this. And think of that shit-stain of a gymnastics coach in the US who actually managed to sexually assault some of his victims under the guise of performing medical exams, while their mothers were in the same room).

Now think about your child, not just as a toddler as they now are, but as they grow up. Aged 3, you watch BIL being nice through gritted teeth, thinking "it's okay so long as I don't let her out of my sight - nothing can happen". But something is happening - BIL is establishing himself in your child's mind as "nice uncle fred who is always kind to me and who I can trust." Age 6, your child starts to wonder why her cousins get to play alone with nice uncle fred, but you won't let her, and that feels unfair... and uncle fred has succeeded in driving a subtle wedge between you and your child, because your child is now (without even realising what they're doing) questioning your judgement. Age 10, you are starting to allow your child more freedom. Perhaps she gets to go to sleepovers with school friends where you know their parents. But she's aware that she's not allowed to go to sleepovers with her cousins... and doesn't know why. All this time uncle fred continues to build up his profile in her mind as "nice uncle fred." Then aged 12, by which point she's cycling to school on her own and being allowed to go to the park unattended for short amounts of time with her friends, uncle fred manages to find out what times she goes to the park (in one of those conversations you're "supervising", i.e. watching from the other side of the room through gritted teeth, not close enough to actually hear the words spoken, but which your husband insists is perfectly okay 'cos it's not like his brother fred is actually touching her or anything). Uncle fred manages to "accidentally" encounter her there, and hey presto, he manages to establish a pattern of meeting up with her without you even knowing (telling her "don't mention it to your mum, because for some reason she's never liked me..." - choosing early adolescence, the exact point most girls start to clash with their mothers for developmentally predictable reasons due to puberty, as the point at which to do this).

That's why the only way forward is no contact.

Cheby this would also be divorce territory for me too! And I would hope for most on this thread. however if I was considering divorce as an option - I would also contact SS and inform them I am concerned that my child is at risk if they had any unsupervised contact with DH, as hard as that is maybe show tell your DH that’s how seriously you are taking protecting your child.

But you must report contact or concerns to the police so they can follow it up, the poor victim.

I would not have my child anywhere near the man. Plus I would not allow the in-laws to babysit as I could not relax knowing the uncle could pop by any minute for a cuppa. No. Fucking. Way.
If it meant getting in my partner's bad books I really wouldn't care as I would do anything to keep my child safe.

From a professional point of view having experience of paedophiles I would NEVER in any circumstances let my child or any child have contact with a convicted paedophile. From my experience they are the most manipulative set of people I have ever had to deal with. They have absolutely no concept that their actions are so repulsive and abhorrent. No amount of rehab has any effect on their base urges. They will seek any opportunity to meet their sexual needs and will do so in open view using cuddling, tickling etc. Can never be trusted.

I haven’t read the whole thread but have seen that the person your BIL abused still has contact at family events. This is utterly shocking. I would have definitely thought that there would be conditions to say that he is not to have contact with this family member.

No way would I allow contact. This happened in my family and I do not see the family member and my DC know nothing about them. I went fully NC with them.

vdb
I am sorry you were molested. I totally understand paedophilia is a brain chemistry/wiring issue. Not all paedophiles go on to offend and many choose not to. Your family member made a choice to molest you and other children instead of questioning his beliefs and understanding. If there wasn’t part of him that thought it was societally wrong he wouldn’t have molested you in secret. I do understand your decision to forgive in adulthood as it will have been for your wellbeing but to include him in family gatherings where children are around even though he is apparently supervised is not a choice I could make. It is very easy for a skilled paedophile to touch their victims under the noses of other adults even though they are being monitored. Stories upthread are testament to this.

I also have direct experience myself although I was lucky to have been in my mid teens and the assailant a very old man. My grandmothers boyfriend. When I told my mother she collected me from my grandmothers house and prohibited me from telling my grandmother. Once again a perpetrator was set free. Reflecting back all these years ago, I was definitely not his first victim. The way he cornered me and rendered me defenceless despite my 16 years and him being about 80 shows he was very skilled in his art.

I struggle to see how a victim of child sexual abuse could have that person in their presence without it causing alarm and pain. My brothers treatment of me as a child was what I would describe as non touching sexual abuse but I’ve only just acknowledge what he did to me. He has also recently been violent to me. Personally I would struggle to be around him right now. He was only a couple of years older than me and his motivation was not sexual but to destroy me to boost his fragile ego.

What excuse have the family used to forgive your BIL? I'm wondering what possible lie they could have told themselves to think that this forgiveness is acceptable.

I'm absolutely astounded that your husband is minimising the dangers.

A billion times no.

I wouldn't ever let PIL babysit if they are also minimising what happened. You dc wouldn't be safe. All it takes is one opportunity and he could "just have popped by" when your dc is with them.

No no no no no.

Stick to your guns op.

Just no! Just stop
You need to protect you baby at all costs.
If you agree to this then your boundaries will constantly be pushed and ignored.
So if you think that baby is safe is you are there, this horrible child abuser will be able to look at your baby and to be honest that is enough for me to never ever have my child in contact with their uncle.
It's your job to keep them safe, you know he is a threat.
This is how abuse gets continued, families just sweeping it under the carpet.
Your husband needs a good talking to

Absolutely not! I do think it’s where the brain has been wired wrongly. But I don’t think base urges ever change. The fact that he went to prison and is now socialising with his poor victim is disgusting. I’d go to the police because surely that is breaking terms of his order. I wouldn’t trust my dh to watch my dd alone either. He obviously trusts his brother as did your ILs. They won’t keep your dd safe.

It’s not just about your DH not managing to keep your DD safe from BIL, it’s about what other potentially harmful situations he may expose his daughter to as his judgement is so poor and he is not demonstrating the ability to put his DD first.

Honestly I would divorce your DH and try and have as much written record that this is the reason! I'd also be letting social services know exactly what is happening and why!

No judge would rule in favour of a father who wanted his DD to spend time with his peadofile brother!

Take DD and run! Fast!

Fermats excellent post about the insidious process of grooming should be read by all.

In your situation I think I would raise a Safeguarding alert with SS, with regards to your DDs safety around the whole of your DH's family, not just the direct threat from the BIL. This will ensure that they are aware of the situation and the fact that he is being allowed contact with child members of the family, you can get advice from them on protecting your DD, and it will also be evidence that you are extremely concerned about the situation, and have done something about it. SS should be well aware of him, the children he potentially has access to within the family, and the threat he poses, but you cannot assume that.

I find this all deeply concerning, and you have to do all you can to protect your DD, even if your DH is not on board with it. You also, in some respects, need to protect yourself and ensure you cannot ever be seen as facilitating his evil behaviour. It is clear from your posts that you would never want to do this, but it would be easy to argue that the whole of your DH's family are potentially facilitating further abuse.

OP, I don't really need to reiterate the comments that have already been made, there are so many.

I just want to caution against any unsupervised contact with your inlaws also. If they have forgiven the BIL , then they may allow contact without telling you.

This happened in my case when I was repeatedly abused by my uncle whilst being babysat at my grandmother's house.

My grandparents thought that what had initially happened was just 'a mistake' that would never happen again. It was minimised and brushed under the carpet. They then would not tell my mum if he came over, so as not to upset her (because they truly believed that he was harmless).
It was horrific.

If they have contact, if they have 'forgiven' - and if the victim is still forced to be in the same room - they are not safe people - however good their intentions are.

Please - it is not EVER worth the risk. The scars are huge.

It's possible your DH doesn't understand the enormity. It sounds like he needs some serious education on it. This is not unusual - I am in a family who are in denial about it also.

No contact is the way to go.

OP, I can’t imagine how anyone could consider it is acceptable for your BiL to have access to your dc after what he has done. Your whole family of inlaws sound seriously fucked up, including your DH.

You have had excellent advice on here and I would hosnetly be planning to leave DH if he tried once more to convince you it was OK for you to take your DD somewhere knowing he would be there. Ducks in a row time with a strong focus on ensuring, if you do separate, DH never has unsupervised access to your DD.

A police officer told a friend, who was going through a very similar situation to yours, that paedophiles groom the whole family so people naturally minimise for them. This may be what’s gone on here. Regardless, your only priority is to keep your DD safe and it sounds like she wouldn’t be if she went with your husband to see inlaws as this piece of scum could well be there.

One thing that hasn't been made clear by the OP was what happened. I am in NO WAY saying that there are 'grades' of abuse, so please noone suggest this - but I'm really trying to understand why the family is minimising so much and why the victim is still being asked to be in the presence of her abuser. Is it possible that the victim was an older teenager who had a relationship with her very young uncle (say 15 and 19) ? In this case, perhaps the conviction was prompted because another relative rightly intervened in the relationship, and the victim did not perceive it as abusive? I only write this because it seems that everyone is assuming that it was a prepubescent child. If it was a relationship that many of the family (wrongly) thought was consenting - that might explain why they are minimising it so much. Either way - I would still allow no contact AT ALL with any of them.

A police officer told a friend, who was going through a very similar situation to yours, that paedophiles groom the whole family so people naturally minimise for them. This may be what’s gone on here.

Absolutely. This is also what I was told by the police officer on my relative's "offender management team".

Abusers put as much effort into grooming the adults around the children as they do into grooming the children. (It's one of the reasons why, as a single parent, I would not do online dating.) The grooming isn't just about "being forgiven", it's about being able to establish themselves as part of the group of "trusted adults" the child sees. All those things we tell our children to help them (and they genuinely are techniques which help in 99% of cases) like "if you get separated from me in the park, look for a mum with children to ask for help" get subverted if a predator has managed to latch himself onto the mum.

Was he tried, convicted, sentenced and released all before you got pregnant? Because honestly I'd struggle to understand why anyone would go on to have a baby with someone able to minimise and accept their brother's sexual abuse of a child. And if you were pregnant before your husband's attitude to his brother's crime became clear, I'd now be seriously reconsidering my relationship in light of it. It's a complete deal breaker in my eyes.

How old is the person who he absused and how old was she then?

If she is still young is it possible that she is still under the pressure and influence of her family?