*possible trigger topic* AIBU paedophile in the family

[Anon112233]

Looking for some advice on a difficult situation.

My husband's brother is a convicted paedophile. He was charged with serious sexual offences against a family member and was released from prison earlier this year.

My husband and his family have all forgiven his brother and had contact whilst in prison and continue see him regularly now.

My husband and I have a baby and, to date, I have refused to allow my brother-in-law to meet her. However my husband is becoming increasingly frustrated by this and wants his brother to be allowed to meet his niece and for us all to attend family events together so long as he is always supervised.

I'm very reluctant to agree to this. Although we can easily supervise contact now as our child is not yet mobile, when she grows up she will move around the house by herself and, short of trailing after her (I'm picturing waiting outside the bathroom etc!!), I don't see how we can ensure constant supervision. Additionally, as she grows up I don't want to have to explain to my child the reason she can never be alone with her uncle!

Also, my husbands parents have regular contact with my brother-in-law and clearly do not consider him to be a threat. If they have seen that we allow our child to have occasional contact, how can I ensure that they do think it's okay to let him have contact when babysitting etc?? I feel like a blanket 'no contact' rule is more straightforward than 'he is allow to have contact when we are there but we don't trust you to protect her'.

If I decide to continue with no contact, am I within my rights as a parent to make that decision even if my husband disagrees?? How do I explain my feelings to him/help him understand my point of view when he clearly loves and trusts his brother and would like him to be involved in our lives? Do you think I am being unreasonable? Would occasional supervised contact be such a bad thing?

Would ss consider my husband and I to have put our child at risk by allowing supervised contact? And is there anyone we need to inform if supervised contact does take place?

Sorry, lots of questions and they may not make sense but my head is a bit jumbled trying to process this!! Any advice would be gratefully received xx

This is an immensely difficult situation where the OP has a difficult path to negotiate. Research is the first step. She has to understand the nature and situation of the offence. She has to know the nature of the offenders probation conditions and she then needs to assess the family dynamic. The worst thing she can do is destroy her marriage and her relationship with the IL’s without knowing all the info. As for those suggestion that you’d be suspicious of the husband because the brother is that way inclined, get a grip.

The DH needs to understand that contact will never happen and the sooner that he knows, the sooner he can get to grips with the info.

IL’s need to know that while you appreciate they have forgiven the offender, OP cannot risk repeat of the offending behaviour no matter how minimal the chances of it happening. Just say that if there is a get together and the offender is present, your DD will not be present.

Even if it’s not true, I would say that I bear the offender no personal animosity and would be happy to meet when DD is not present. I hated my ex SIL with a passion but would smile and make small talk whenever we met because you can’t choose your family.

Let them minimise but be firm and explain DD will never meet and any attempt to facilitate this in secret will mean divorce and no contact but do it in the nicest possible way.

I think you already have your answer to whether you are being unreasonable or not which you absolutely are not.

I've seen a couple of other professionals have added their view and thought i would to as a professional and a parent. I have experience of working with peadophiles and sex offenders.

Peadophiles who act on their urges, tend to be psychopathic in their nature. You need to have a lack of emotional intelligence and empathy to abuse children and to believe it isn't wrong. Those who do this, do not believe they're doing anything wrong and cannot therefore be rehabilitated. This is a harsh view however we don't see successful rehabilitation in those who've physically abused children. Those who have not is a very different thing, these men and women show awareness and I believe that therapy and support should be given.

Your BIL has likely manipulated his entire family, which is why they have chosen to forgive and have contact. It is as a PP has said he will have groomed them all. You are outside of this, and can see it all for what it is as the rest of us reading can as we can't fathom accepting this if it was our family member.

I feel absolutely awful for his victim that this poor girl sees him at family events and worse has seen him welcomed to family occasions although charged with abusing her, I wonder how do her parents feel about him and how old was she/is she? Mostly I hope she's had therapy and support, as this behaviour from her family is as damaging as his actions and they are all responsible for this.

On the subject of your child, I think you absolutely know what you have to do and that is never allow contact. I wouldn't go to your in-laws if he is living there. I wouldn't want him to even look at my child never mind come near him or her. In honesty I'd feel uncomfortable with your in laws having photos of your child up in their home when he is residing there.

Perhaps ask your husband to read this thread, it may help him to see other people's immediate responses as I do believe he's had it minimised.

Does he know the details of what he did to his victim? This may not be pleasant and I understand very sensitive but I'd want to go through them. I'm assuming your child is very young and I wonder if talking though his actions frankly will trigger that parent protective mode we all have in him.

This again is much easier for me to say than for you to do, and I absolutely understand the difficulty however I would suggest sitting down and speaking with your in-laws. This will be easier if your dh has come round to your way of thinking. I would invite them to your home so as definitely without BIL present and calmly explain your feelings about a convicted offender being around your child. I'd be armed with some evidence, I worry due to their minimising they as a family are at risk of serial abuse within their family. I'd explain that your child will always be able to see them but this will be at your home and on days out where you are also present. That while they cannot see the danger he presents you cannot allow him or her to their home, or for them to take them out for the day. I'd add it's their choice as parents to forgive and support their child, but that as a parent you also must put the safety of your child first.

www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse/sexual-abuse-facts-statistics/

I've added a link to the nspcc, I hope this can also guide you to support.

If your husband doesn't change his thinking from your conversations then I would recommend sessions with a therapist. If your relationship is otherwise good then it worth this to work through this issue and a therapist may help him to see how he's been manipulated too.

Good luck my love, you are in a really awful situation and have some difficult conversations ahead of you. Stay firm in your position that he can never see your child though please, as a parent you are responsible for ensuring their safety and you are fortunate enough to know of a direct risk unlike the parents of his previous victim.

He went to prison. It wasn't anything minor. Why are you colluding.

Sorry I haven't time at the moment to rtft but just wanted to say if he's been convicted then one of the conditions will be that he has to have no access to children, we have just been through this with a neighbour who was convicted but on release slipped through the net and when he moved in made steps to get close to the families with children, he has been found out and rearrested and is not allowed back anywhere near his home. He didn't get chance to abuse anyone else btw thankfully.
I can't understand your dh family accepting and forgiving this person. I personally would not let him anywhere near my child and I'm pretty sure ss would support you in splitting from your dh if he is insistent on contact.

I worked with paedophiles. This is what I've heard them say.
No child is too young.
Go online to look for profiles of single mum's - they are advertising their kids.
Groom the parents first - then the child.

So would I allow my child to even be in a house yet alone a room with this man ? Answer is no .

She's not colluding, Missing. She's trying to prevent her DH colluding. Because the sad fact is that without him on board, it will be incredibly difficult to safeguard her child. Option (a) - she stays married. At some point her husband will have her child in his company without her around, and she has to know that he won't use that time to take the child for a one off "won't do any harm" visit to uncle fred. Option (b) - she divorces. Have a look at some of the relationship threads. It is incredibly hard to prevent a father having shared custody of a child, even when there's a history of the father himself perpetrating domestic violence. If she can't stop him having overnight custody, then again, there's no way she can stop him taking the child to see "nice uncle fred."

The only point at which this clusterfuck could have been avoided was by deciding not to have a child - and she wasn't a mind reader, she didn't have a crystal ball, she didn't know back at that stage that her husband would turn out to put contact with his paedophile brother above safeguarding their own child.

What OP is looking for now is help finding some sort of strategy that will get her husband on board with cutting contact.

FermatsTheorem your post made me shiver, I really think everyone should read that.

OP your DH grew up in a family in which his brother became a convinced paedophile and his parents minimise that behaviour, this is not a normal well functioning family. Of course this is not your DH’s fault, and his belief that his brother is no threat now is probably entirely genuine in his head, but his opinion on this cannot he trusted.

You have to be the one with the clear head here and repeat very clearly and firmly that your DD will never have any contact with this man. Re-read Fermat’s post if you’re in any doubt!! There is a risk,because you’re in the minority in this view among his family, that you’ll start feeling you’re over-reacting, please re-read this thread any time you feel that way and be assured you are NOT over-reacting, you are doing absolutely the right thing by putting your child’s safety above anything else. Sounds like your entirely defenceless child only has you to be able to see this situation clearly and act appropriately, and thank goodness she does. If it helps then feel angry about it, angry that anyone would DARE even THINK of putting your DD in this position. There is no grey area here OP, you are absolutely doing the right thing by denying all contact with this child abuser.

Sorry but I wouldn’t give a shit who it was

For me pedophilla is a red line
It’s haveing contact with a child abuser or having a wife and child not both
To me choose or I choose for you their will be a day when he drops the guard and baby will be being taken round their to brothers

RoseGoldEagle

Amen that is all

I agree that he is only showing remorse because of being caught out. True remorse would entail him never attending family events so that he can't cause distress to the victim, or not putting you in this situation, by agreeing to avoid your child completely.

It’s also about the risk of dh popping out with dd and taking her to meet uncle awful

For me their is a choice for dh to make you cannot have regular inmate contact with a child abuser and still have a
Wife and children I wouldn’t usually dictate who dh can be around but this is an exception

Oh, and my second point is this: imagine if one day you decide to give your child a sibling. Unless there has been a blanket 'no contact' rule from the start, it will be a complete logistical nightmare trying to protect more than one child from him.

Why are you colluding.

How is the OP colluding? She's doing exactly the opposite.

It's good he has family support as the more isolated an offender is, the more likely to re-offend. What are the conditions of his sex offenders order? Either way there is no chance in hell I would even take a minimal risk with my kid. It is not worth it and it would be gambling with the child's safety and future. If your husband can't get that I would have a few thoughts about that too, sorry. Sounds like he and the family have their heads in the sand somewhat. I have a friend who is on the register and while I support him how I can I would never ever let him near any kids.

How often do you see his family, OP? Are they far away or local? This could make a difference with safeguarding as DH and PIL's can't just up and take the child to have contact if they're a fair distance away as easily.

If DH is happy with this, throw the whole man out.

Op. stand your ground here. Is he on the sexual register. Think you need to seek advice but knowingly allowing a convicted paedophile near your dc...no way. You right ss would be interested. Vvv hard decision.

Is it a hard decision? It's pretty fucking simple from where I'm sitting. No way on earth would my kid be going anywhere near him and I'd go NC with the lot of them if necessary.

Okay, time for a practical action plan.

I'm going to work on the worst-case assumption that your husband has been so thoroughly groomed/messed up by his family that he is incapable of seeing sense, and that you don't want to divorce him because then he'd have your child over night and you'd have no control whatsoever on the circumstances in which your child saw uncle paedophile.

1. Contact the police immediately to do a Claire's Law search on the guy.

2. Armed with the results of this contact his probation officer. He may well already be in breach of his release conditions.

3. Set about building your child's sense of her own boundaries right now. Tickling matches stop the instant she says stop. No-one forces her to kiss or hug relatives when she doesn't want to. Everyone in the family is told these are your rules for her and there is to be no negotiation on that issue.

4. Tell her in age appropriate terms what uncle paedophile has done and why she can never be alone with him. (When young, use Red Riding Hood - uncle is the wolf dressed up as granny, and has in the past done something really horrid to a little girl and you don't trust him not to do it again). This bit will be absolutely horrible for you (remember I've been there) - you don't want to "destroy their innocence". But in this case, sadly, you're into harm reduction, not harm avoidance. The genie is out of the bottle. You have to talk to your child even if you think she's too young.

5. Get uncle paedophile on his own at one of these family gatherings. Let him know that you know, and that unlike the rest of his family, you are not fooled for an instant. Tell him that if he so much as looks in your daughter's direction, you will report him to the police - but not before you've cut off his cock and balls with a rusty bread knife. Telling him this won't stop him being a sex offender - but it may stop him viewing your daughter as the easiest victim to hand. (Again, this is fucking screwed up and goes against all my feminist principles, because it's effectively saying "go pick on an easier victim, this one's well guarded" - but we're talking what you need to do to protect your daughter.)

Open the showing remorse is he??
well he would wouldn't he
for fucksake this man is a sexual Predator
he's going to do whatever he has to do make people trust him
You can't just take him at his word!

Fermat's posts are very good indeed and give valuable insight and advice. Thank you for this, Fermat - Im sure this will help the OP and others.

Fermat are you my mum?!
You sound just like her!
I second Fermats plan, it’s sensible, well thought out, rational and absolutely fair.

If you're not being told what his conditions are perhaps you could try using Sarah's law.

Does Sarah's Law include disclosure of parole/SHPO conditions as well as forensic history?

I worked with a fairly serious sex offender (MAPPA level 2, the second highest), and his NOMS worker only told me what his conditions because I couldn't help him get housing without knowing where he was allowed to live (not within two miles of a school, nursery, park, playground, beach etc, and he was even prohibited from walking along the seafront of the town where his hostel was).

No way would I let him anywhere near a child, and I wouldn't visit the family if he was going to be present. I couldn't live with the risk that he might develop a bond with that child, which could lead to grooming opportunities when the child was older and had more autonomy.

I would also be very unhappy if my in-laws adopted what appears to be a forgive-and-forget attitude. But then I work in an area where we have to be constantly alert to safeguarding issues (adult as well as child). I guess not everyone sees and hears some of the grim stuff we do, so maybe I'm over-egging it.

I have come across extended families where abuse (physical and sexual) is tolerated and accepted, so that side of it really puts the wind up me.

Wow I feel so sorry for you, it must be s source of constant anxiety. He is scum and has no business being in contact with ypur child. I'm not saying he can't control himself, but why should she be associated with this scum. When I was a child I was allowed to be around a paedophile, luckily nothing happened but I now am very angry with my parents for allowing it.

The effects of my peadophile grandfather:

• drove a wedge between me and my parents, basically acted like I had attachment disorder, made me a secretive compulsive liar.

• he used to ply my dad with too much alcohol to abuse me, my dad was a functioning alcoholic for years and is now teetotal.

• caused me severe anxiety and self esteem issues. I now have trouble forming friendships with anyone because I don't trust. I was ripped to shreds in court.

It turns out there was a string of abused children in random cousins and family friends. It was all hushed up and forgiven by other family members. It should have been stopped decades before it got to me.

Trust me, this is not the life you want for your kids. Protect them from this predator.

@Fermats fantastic post. Lots of great advice

I was abused by a family member. I cut them all off over 20 years ago, they were excusers. Best thing I ever did. Please protect your child, even if it means leaving your husband and moving away where they can't find you.

I 100% agree with this:
Paedophiles cannot be treated, they are what they are. Your DH is being foolish to think your DC is safe.