To point out that Ireland is a separate country?

[DrMantisToboggan]

Just that.

Ireland is a sovereign state, not part of the U.K. It hasn’t been part of the U.K. since 1922.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It’s not part of Great Britain though.

Some people refer to Ireland as the Republic of Ireland, partly to differentiate it from Northern Ireland, but the legal name of the state is Ireland.

While I’m at it, the term “British Isles” is controversial and the product of colonialist geography (geography is not a value-free discipline obviously). The British Gov itself apparently has internal guidance not to use it. In joint documents the British and Irish Govs use the euphemistic phrase “these islands”, and other options include Western Atlantic Archipelago or Islands Of the North Atlantic.

There’s no such country as “Southern Ireland”. And “Eire” is also incorrect, unless you’re in the habit of referring to Germany as Deutschland or Spain as España.

The island of Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are different things. I won’t call the republic ‘Ireland’.

One thing I find very odd is the BBC’s persistent use of “the Irish Republic”, especially in news bulletins.

The Irish Republic is the name for the underground state that existed, partially and inter alia, between 1916 and 1922. It has a precise historical meaning and it’s not the same thing as the “Republic of Ireland” or “Ireland” at all.

When the U.K. state broadcaster can’t even get the name of its closest neighbour correct, that really says a lot

And as a side note, it's odd to refer to Ireland as Éire if you're speaking English. An English speaker using Éire harks back to the time when the UK refused to use the states preferred name, politicians made derogatory comments about it and at the 1948 Olympics the UK forced Ireland to participate under that name. Wasn't until 98 that the preferred name was used, that isn't long ago at all.

Certainly shouldn't be Eire as that means burden.

To try and lump N.Ireland and the republic of Ireland together for no reason other than to state that its the same geographical land mass is to make a sectarian point. Do you not understand the history between the UK and the republic. Either you do and dont care, are very naive and stupid or deliberately trying to stir up hatred?

The official name of the state is Ireland (and also Éire), as per article 4 of the Constitution. Republic of Ireland is the description. You can dislike it all you like, but facts are facts.

Ireland can be both the state and the geographical entity.

Raven actually the term Éire was replaced in British law in 1949 with the Ireland Act, when ‘the Republic of Ireland’ was used. Took longer to filter out of common speech, of course.

It is Ireland and Northern Ireland. Do NOT use Eire or Southern Ireland for the huge part you did not take hold of. And not everyone in the 'south' wants unification. I especially do not. I love my own country the way we are and if the 6 counties you insisted on taking over way back when are fucking over your brexit bollox then you have nobody but yourselves to blame. Feck off and leave us alone please and thanks|!

Eire just means Ireland in Gaeilge, so saying Eire in an English conversation is odd.

agus Gaeilge á labhairt Eire is fine

That's what I mean mantis, the goady comments about Éire continued on. The law changed earlier but government only accepted the correct name in 98. This is why I say not to use it, you just lump yourself in with those uneducated shites who couldn't deal with Ireland getting away (not aimed at you, just for people who won't know). Different if you're speaking Irish and using it in a conversation of course.

To try and lump N.Ireland and the republic of Ireland together for no reason other than to state that its the same geographical land mass is to make a sectarian point.

The OP didn't "lump N.Ireland and the republic of Ireland together". It's geography that did that.😂😂😂 To say that NI and RoI are on the island of Ireland is a statement of fact, not a "sectarian point".

This thread has been started as an informative thread to try and address some of the ignorance that persists on MN surround Ireland and Northern Ireland. In order to do that, facts have been stated. It would be utterly ridiculous and totally baffling to have a thread helping people understand Ireland without explaining that it is one island made up of two countries. Just like we say that Great Britain is made up of Scotland, England and Wales. It is not sectarian to say this and this thread has certainly not been stated to stir up sectarianism. It has been to address the gap in knowledge that is apparent on MN.

The island of Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are different things. I won’t call the republic ‘Ireland’.

Why on earth not? Do you also talk about the Republic of France?

Another point that often confuses people from both countries - "British" is the correct adjective for something or someone from any part of the UK. So, while NI is part of the UK but not part of Britain, it is correct to say that someone from NI is British (unless they see themselves as only Irish, which is a different conversation!). There is no such thing as "UKish", "British" is correct. This is a grammatical point, not a political one.

That's why it should be referred to as Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I grew up in Londonderry in the late 60s and early 70s. Something I've realised since moving abroad is that no one cares about Ireland / Northern Ireland once you're on the mainland. '

“The British Gov itself apparently has internal guidance not to use it.”

I automatically ignore any sentence with apparently in it and tell students to.

I feel the same way about the phrase ‘the mainland’...

Michelle Spain calls the channel "La Mancha"

On "British" being an acceptable adjective as inclusive of GB and N.I. I can't help feeling the reasons for that (which I accept the dictionary says) are rooted in the history and politics of the region.

It's like using "American" for things from the U.S.A. Ask a Mexican how they feel about that! Not to derail but it shows how important language is and how difficult it is to remain neutral even when you're trying very hard to keep things factual.

I now try to re-word things to avoid using "shorthand" and stick to proper names.... (Cue convoluted " that's the flag of the United States of America dear" rather than " the American flag" when DC point at the stars and stripes).

The British Government would be fine for period from 1707-1801 but otherwise, it is the UK Government (to be fair I'll not be saying "Her Majesty's Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland")

Whether NI is British or not depends solely on who you are speaking to.

Western Atlantic Archipelago

If anyone ever used that in a conversation with me I'd assume the only reason they were doing it was to make me go "where?" so they could feel superior.

Anyway here in Germany they think we're all English, no matter which part of the Western Atlantic Archipelago we hail from

When I moved from Ireland to England not long after the GFA, I had to explain very clearly to the person at the Jobcentre where I had gone to apply for a National Insurance number that no, I couldn’t ‘just use my own one from home because it’s all the same’.

And despite my pointing out several times that I was not Northern Irish, therefore I came from an entirely different employment/tax system — and in fact we don’t have NI numbers, anyway — he ended up calling his supervisor, who repeated the same line.

Your topic fits nicely into an AIBU thread, DrMantisToboggan. It is frustrating whenever this lack of understanding about Ireland is met, mainly because people do not accept the facts when their lack of understanding is discussed. This week I had my hair cut by an English man in East London. We got talking about Ireland as he asked me about my accent, and he had mixed Italian-Irish heritage. His mum was from Kerry, a place he ‘had heard was beautiful’, he then lamented that he ‘was embarrassed’ that he ‘had never visited this part of the UK’. ‘Ah, but Kerry is not in the UK’, it’s in Ireland’ I said. His response ‘it’s all the same, it’s what I think anyway’ is typical. However, Kerry is a county in Ireland, this is a fact, not an opinion! I’m Irish and have lived in England on and off for nearly 30 years. Friends who were educated in England suggest that this (often met) lack of awareness about Ireland not being part of the UK persists as the history of colonialism is not taught in schools here – I was educated in Ireland so do not know how true this is.

Within Ireland if there's a need to differentiate one part of Ireland (name for a whole island. The international rugby team know this.) it's done, at least in my part of the country, by referring to 'The North' or 'The Republic'. Am very slightly annoyed by some of the names the British use for the country but can't really be bothered worrying over them. The reference that drives me mad and that I always call people out on is 'The Mainland' for Great Britain. As opposed to our island off the mainland. Jayzus would ye stop that. You live on an island, just like we do.

'British Isles' is fine by me. It's a geographical term. Outdated, but to dither over its relevance to political history is like dithering over what 'moron' indicated in the past. The Carpathian Mountains extend far beyond what was Carpathia, the Indian Ocean doesn't belong to India, and I doubt the current Magellan family out in the 'burbs lay claim to the strait. Besides, I've yet to hear a brave patriot who's triggered by 'British Isles' mention the 'Irish Sea' in the same breath.

Used to be known as the Irish Free State

Some of the confusion comes from sport. The Ireland rugby team represents the whole of Ireland, and contains both U.K. citizens from Northern Ireland and Irish citizens from the republic.

Football is different, however. There are two entirely separate international teams, one representing Northern Ireland, the other representing the Republic of Ireland. These names are used for clarity outside Ireland, but in Ireland the ROI team is simply referred to as ‘Ireland’.

All clear?

Still confused as to why the Irish passport has ‘Eire’ on it if it’s so derogatory

It’s not derogatory if you are using the Irish language. Irish passports have both official languages on the front (and inside). Here’s a photo.

Do you call Germany ‘Deutschland’ when speaking in English, Kitty?

Yanbu Op

I'm always stunned the amount of seemingly switched on folk who don't know this.