To point out that Ireland is a separate country?

[DrMantisToboggan]

Just that.

Ireland is a sovereign state, not part of the U.K. It hasn’t been part of the U.K. since 1922.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It’s not part of Great Britain though.

Some people refer to Ireland as the Republic of Ireland, partly to differentiate it from Northern Ireland, but the legal name of the state is Ireland.

While I’m at it, the term “British Isles” is controversial and the product of colonialist geography (geography is not a value-free discipline obviously). The British Gov itself apparently has internal guidance not to use it. In joint documents the British and Irish Govs use the euphemistic phrase “these islands”, and other options include Western Atlantic Archipelago or Islands Of the North Atlantic.

There’s no such country as “Southern Ireland”. And “Eire” is also incorrect, unless you’re in the habit of referring to Germany as Deutschland or Spain as España.

Very interesting! Thanks blonde!

What I’m taking from that is that, left to its own devices, Ireland flourishes and the powers that be don’t like that, so must quash it before we get too much power or influence. They fear us, and worry we will make them dance without moving their arms.

The Irish in Britain suffering very poor mental health went on until the late 20thc, if not longer, Marry -- I had some involvement with the Camden Irish Centre when I first lived in London, and the stats on Irish mental health and physical health, including second and third generation, are disturbing. Irish migrants to the UK have worse mental health than any other group, apart from one specific mental illness in Afro-Caribbeans.

This is from a factsheet produced by the charity Mind for GPs, I think from 2001 -- the whole thing is worth a read, especially for anyone who thinks the days of anti-Irish discrimination disapeared with the demise of the 'No Dogs, no Blacks, No Irish' signs. Certainly when I first started coming to London at the end of the 80s, it was still very much under the influence of the Prevention of Terrorism Act, and we got pulled over at ferry ports and airports all the time, and verbal abuse on the street wasn't unusual:

lemosandcrane.co.uk/resources/Mind%20-%20The%20mental%20health%20of%20Irish%20people%20in%20Britain.pdf

As well as poor physical health, Irish people in Britain have a high incidence of mental health problem - well above the rates for other migrant groups (with the exception of psychosis in the African Caribbean population). Irish people have significantly higher rates of GP consultations for psychological problems, particularly depression. Common mental disorders, including anxiety, depression and phobias, are significantly more common among Irish men.

The 'Count Me In' census over three years shows that the pattern of hospital admissions for Irish people with mental health problems is unlike that for other groups, being skewed towards the 50+ age group. It also shows that a high number of people admitted with mental health problems also have a physical disability.

That’s so sad and yet fascinating.

In Afro Carribean men there’s some evidence to suggest that vitD is instrumental in the development of both psychosis and also MS. But I can only think that the increased rates of poor mental health in the Irish are the result of essentially a massive humanitarian disaster compounded by poor treatment on “escape”.

I’d wager it’s not a Celtic gene per se

Dunno about that AWoman and I'm very wary of falling over to the other side of relying on feeling that Irish people are better than others; 20thC history clearly shows not.
I'm just trying to balance the scales - by pointing out that the stereotypes did not emerge in a vacuum.

Irish = violent, peasant, drunkard, untrustworthy, church-bound, stupid, backward

Violent- when democratic methods are blocked, people will take matters into their own hands. CF how the majority Irish Catholic population did not have a vote in it's own government pre 1829, by which point the government had moved to London against the majority's wishes.
peasant Penal Laws forbade ownership of land which disproportionately affected Ireland. Subsistence/small/large landholders in Ireland were equally as devastated by the Famine and arrived in New York, Canada, Liverpool destitute- their wealth and status gone
drunkard probably an appropriate response to circumstances. Cf rates of alcoholism in Aboriginal Australians, Maori New Zealanders, Native Americans etc etc
untrustworthy if you set an unfair set of laws, you cannot expect people to abide by them
church-bound one of the only sources of education/health/support through the late 1700's and early 1800's was the Catholic Church. Power was that subsequently abused, but you cannot criticise that without looking at the complete history of how the Catholic Church emerged as a force in Ireland
Stupid excluding people from education by teaching in another language or insisting that they change their religion in order to get it, will have the effect of making them seem stupid.
In addition, if you uproot a large population from their own society/customs/family groups, they will be disorientated.
Backward....well even today, it holds true that different does not equal backward. If you look at the customs of the Rohingya..they may not translate well to Europe, but that does not make them backward.

Matutinal and Marryone
I don't know if you are aware of the Dutch Famine study post-WW2?

Clearly shown impact of famine through several generations.

Oh I was being very tongue in cheek baroness! I thought it came through, but clearly not! don’t worry, I don’t think we’re better than anyone else!

Baroness Blonde I’m aware of the Dutch famine but haven’t particularly read anything about it, and am very keen to. What do you recommend?

Who cares? I don't.

You’re the problem lavendar

Who cares? I don't.

There, there, dearie. Run along and watch Love Island. It might be move your level of debate.

AWoman sorry I misjudged the tone!

Marryone are you looking for the Cochrane review of the research or something more introductory? There's a section of a Coursera course on epigenetics that deals with it.

Lavendar what don't you care about? History? Ireland is a separate country? The Dutch Famine?

Just when you think its safe to get into the water........aaaaannd up pops Lavendar with this gem:

Who cares? I don't.

After pages of week informed opinion, careful nuanced argument - that!

week = well!
oops

Oh I really want to do that coursera course on Epigenetics now. Always a fascinating area of study. I used to work with an academic who was studying the epigenetics of Holocaust survivors in a New York Jewish community.

There is also this podcast on Irish history that has just finished a series of Famine-focused episodes with lots of great information on the social and cultural impact of it.
link

Oh! interesting link Inion, thanks.
I didn't get to see that Famine exhibition - had dates in my diary, but..., work.

We can dismiss Lavendar but the "who cares" is not an unusual reaction amongst most people in the UK and not just in relation to Ireland.

This lady sums up many people's views

I support more history in general in schools and think all children should do history and geography GCSE in England and knowing about Irish history as it relates to the UK is an important part of that.

We also need to exchange views and communicate with each other even if we don't always all share the same views. That is one of the nice things about MN. My brother's children are getting Irish passports (as they have on that side an Irish grandparent whereas we don't - it's a bit too far back - the closest is that my great grandfather was born in Ireland in the 1930s - he married late and my father was the last child of about 10 and my grandfather was nearly 50 when my father was born and my father was in his 30s when he had us but even with those big generation gaps the fact it is a great grand parent does not qualify me.

We can dismiss Lavendar but the "who cares" is not an unusual reaction amongst most people in the UK and not just in relation to Ireland.

Which is exactly the problem and why the thread was started.

Good thread. I'm glad it was started.

Eh? Lavender?

Xenia there is no we between you and I. Your previous posts show a careless disregard for the whole issue. You declared that you thought one solution was for the UK ‘to take the whole of Ireland back’.

I have argued, at length, for education of the English so that they do care.

Lavender clearly just read the OP and posted a lazy ‘who cares?’ probably assuming that’s what everyone else said. This is exactly the point that the OP is seeking to address.

It feels patronising for you to now take a reasonable tone after some frankly ignorant posting.

I am being taken a bit out of context here. I said I was neutral on whether ireland reunited if the people of NI agreed or if it stayed as it was or if it all became part of the UK. I have not suggested the irish send invading armies into London or vice versa and as I said I am glad the topic has been raised.

A lot of the British don't care about much except Love Island and what they will have for dinner and I am shoulder to shoulder with you in trying to get many more women interested in political issues.

But you are saying 'it doesn't matter to me, so what are you all fussed about?' and so are the likes of Lavender. Ergo you and I have very different perspectives and I am not part of any "we" that "dismissed" Lavendar

Xenia what people are saying is that your "meh" attitude is part of the problem. Irish people on here that have lived in Ireland as recently as today mind and want their nearest neighbours to understand that they are a separate country.

If you understood or cared at even a shallow level Xenia you would not have casually thrown out a suggestion that the UK take Ireland back. It's an ignorant suggestion and indeed would be viewed as a very offensive statement to make by many.

Ireland is actually a very young country in terms of its establishment as a republic, however the long history leading up to the establishment of the state is inextricably and, on very many occasions, tragically linked with the UK. To dismiss it as casually as you did in a 'what's the big fuss about anyway' manner and to continue to do so, even when posters try to explain the issues with what you are posting, makes me question how interested you are in anything other than expressing your own cloth eared views.

Thank you op. I've actually been calling it "southern Ireland " I will call it Ireland from now on

I was taken out of context. I said if the North wants to be part of the South fine, if all the South wants to rejoin England fine. If they want to stay as they are that's fine. I have never recommended the irish invade England or England invades Eire.