To point out that Ireland is a separate country?

[DrMantisToboggan]

Just that.

Ireland is a sovereign state, not part of the U.K. It hasn’t been part of the U.K. since 1922.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It’s not part of Great Britain though.

Some people refer to Ireland as the Republic of Ireland, partly to differentiate it from Northern Ireland, but the legal name of the state is Ireland.

While I’m at it, the term “British Isles” is controversial and the product of colonialist geography (geography is not a value-free discipline obviously). The British Gov itself apparently has internal guidance not to use it. In joint documents the British and Irish Govs use the euphemistic phrase “these islands”, and other options include Western Atlantic Archipelago or Islands Of the North Atlantic.

There’s no such country as “Southern Ireland”. And “Eire” is also incorrect, unless you’re in the habit of referring to Germany as Deutschland or Spain as España.

Are you british by any chance?

Not sure what that trivia adds to the discussion, but since you ask, my mum was Irish and my dad English.

And yes, I do think it's petulant to worry so much about a geographical label. It's an ancient name that predates any nation or country that now exists. I'd have more understanding for people who find 'their' geography named after 19th century Europeans, especially when there were perfectly adequate local names, such as Mount Everest.

I'd have more understanding for people who find 'their' geography named after 19th century Europeans, especially when there were perfectly adequate local names, such as Mount Everest

You mean like the British Army’s Ordnance Survey mapping of Ireland in the 1830s, which created anglicised placenames across the country, including in wholly Irish-speaking areas? And which contributed to the linguistic transformation of the country? That sort of thing?

" I'd have more understanding for people who find 'their' geography named after 19th century Europeans, especially when there were perfectly adequate local names, such as Mount Everest. "

so a bit like Wales then? or , even.....Ireland?

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast I don't think the UK named either Wales or Ireland.

DrMantisToboggan Agree with you there, and as you know that is being addressed in Ireland.

Ifailed, I can assure you that there are places in Wales and in Ireland that were named by the colonisers. Your example, for example, was mount Everest.. In Wales we have 'Mount Snowdon' to offer a similar example.

In fact 'Wales' as a place name was invented by the English. That is not what the Welsh call it is it?
I don't want to be mean, but you really could do some more reading around these issues before you start sounding off.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast, I know. But once again it's being addressed:

Wales is the English version of the country, like Ireland is the English version of Éireann. It's not that difficult to grasp.

so there's a bilingual road sign? wow.
It doesn't change the fact of 'Mount Snowdon' and 'Wales' being invented place names, just as you were saying that they weren't, that this only happens in other countries.

it's not about 'grasping' anything, it's about you arguing that..(let me see, ah yes..)

" 'd have more understanding for people who find 'their' geography named after 19th century Europeans, especially when there were perfectly adequate local names, such as Mount Everest "

so apart from the Welsh and Irish then?

Scotland was joined to England in a union of equals

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You obviously don't know much history or current affairs, do you? There were riots in Scotland because it was so manifestly unequal (and has been shown to be so on a regular basis ever since) and Burns wrote about being 'bought and sold for English gold'. It was only bribery of Scots peers and the fact that both England refused to allow Scots to trade with its colonies and that Scotland had been near bankrupted by Darien (which was an effort to work around that) that brought about the Union of Parliaments. It has been clearly shown to be unequal by English MPs forcing through changes to Scots legislation against the will of the Scottish Parliament and MPs, as well as the dragging of Scotland out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish people.

Agree with you there, and as you know that is being addressed in Ireland.

What do you mean? There’s no project to roll back the Ordnance Survey naming, is there?

Ah do you mean bilingual road signs? That’s not “addressing it”. The speaking of Irish language lost as a direct and indirect result of colonialism over the course of the 19th century can and will never be replaced.

@DrMantisToboggan I think I want to be you when I grow up.

TooManyPaws

That is complete horse shit. Sorry, but it is.

Read some reliable history.

@Plimmy I've read some reliable history and can tell you that the Darien Scheme, Alien Act, Scottish Peer bribery and riots in Edinburgh and Glasgow in reaction to the Union are all absolutely true.

Obviously there were supporters and detractors on both sides and there's much more to look at when considering drivers but the above did happen and were factors in the Scottish/English union

Urgh! As if it was staged just to prove this thread necessary, I’ve just seen a FB thread on a money savers page asking why they’ve been paid their tax credits a day early. Loads of people coming on saying “Irish bank holiday x” some people correcting saying NI bank holiday, Ireland don’t get tax credits. Some saying there are no UK bank holidays in July, none until August, being corrected with those saying there is, its in NI for the 12th of July, people responding saying, “but it’s not a U.K. holiday because it’s not on the mainland U.K.”

Trump just said the UK - Scotland and Ireland. Sigh.

When did he say this? I'd say surely he knows better, but nothing shocks me with Trump

Today sometime. It's been shown on the BBC news clips all day.

James D Boys historian on BBC News right now, gave a list of US presidents with Irish ancestry - Reagan, Kennedy etc, and then said so a lot of US presidents have British ancestry.

You mean like the British Army’s Ordnance Survey mapping of Ireland in the 1830s, which created anglicised placenames across the country, including in wholly Irish-speaking areas? And which contributed to the linguistic transformation of the country? That sort of thing?

You're on fire, @DrMantisToboggan ! I wish MN had those 'applause' emojis like on my phone

I love all of the esoteric and shouldn't-really-be-esoteric-but-sadly-is information that we have on this thread.

This has to be one of a number of threads I've seen on MN in recent days that is relating to Ireland or Irish identity and prejudice from the UK against Irish people. As an Irish person who used to live in the UK (Scotland, in fact), it's gripping stuff.

Just how bad are things getting over there with the Brexit nonsense? I read some statements from British politicians and journalists these days and they're infuriating. I say to (Scottish) Dh on a regular basis that I am so so so glad I don't live in the UK anymore. I would get a brain aneurysm from listening to the ignorance and bigotry coming out of the Brexit supporters right now as they ride roughshod over every diplomatic relationship, especially the ROI-UK relationship, to achieve their lunatic Brexit dreams.

Don't mention the war

I think in 2018 we just need to live side by side - UK and Eire without continuing to raise the past all the time.

On Brexit I am a remainer but the referendum result is to leave so so be it. It is certainly a mess. I don't really see why it matters too much what kind of border there is with NI. Even if there is nothing physical there it is still the border -so again like a country name why does anyone care how it is demarked?

Eire - are you being deliberately goady