To point out that Ireland is a separate country?

[DrMantisToboggan]

Just that.

Ireland is a sovereign state, not part of the U.K. It hasn’t been part of the U.K. since 1922.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It’s not part of Great Britain though.

Some people refer to Ireland as the Republic of Ireland, partly to differentiate it from Northern Ireland, but the legal name of the state is Ireland.

While I’m at it, the term “British Isles” is controversial and the product of colonialist geography (geography is not a value-free discipline obviously). The British Gov itself apparently has internal guidance not to use it. In joint documents the British and Irish Govs use the euphemistic phrase “these islands”, and other options include Western Atlantic Archipelago or Islands Of the North Atlantic.

There’s no such country as “Southern Ireland”. And “Eire” is also incorrect, unless you’re in the habit of referring to Germany as Deutschland or Spain as España.

at the posting of the Proclamation.
You’ve only confused matters further, since that refers to the “Irish Republic”

whatscomingoverthehill don't think anyone said the British Isles was a country or state (you've quoted my post so you'll see I was giving examples of how places change names all the time).

Ireland (as a country) doesn't like the name and finds it offensive and afaik the British government doesn't use it either - both tend to use "these islands" or "the U.K. and Ireland" when referring to them. Which is how the "natural changes in language" that you talk about will come about.

To take your example, it would be the equivalent of every European country deciding to adopt a new name for Europe and referring to it officially as such (not "someone in Spain" fgs), on the basis that "Europe" was offensive in the context of a long and troubled history.

Also difficult to reconcile your statement that "everywhere else uses it" with "the only time I hear the name used day to day is by people saying they don't like it".

In any case, my original post was in response to you saying that you couldn't see a problem with the term. Rightly or wrongly, can you honestly not see how Ireland (the country) might have a problem with being referred to as a British isle, given its history? Who would be "nonplussed" by someone saying "the UK and Ireland" instead??

The EU has all the trappings of a sovereign nation...

Legislative Body...the EU Commission full of unelected bureaucrats' who cannot be removed.
Parliament...the EU parliament which has no real power, cannot make its own laws and acts as a rubber stamp for the EU Commission
Common Border...the Schengen Area
Single Currency---the Euro
Judiciary....The European Court of Justice
Central Bank... the European Central Bank
A National Anthem....Ode to Joy by Beethoven
A National Flag
A Single Treasury... Euro Area Treasury
and it's looking to form an EU army.

Individual EU "nation" states are ultimately answerable to the above and have only the illusion of sovereignty.

#rememberLisbon

Ireland sold out.
Nice EU infrastructure. Nice houses. No sovereignty.

Lots of British people neither know nor care about anything outside their own immediate vicinity. The education system doesn't teach any of these details unless you opt for gcse history.
Surprised at some on this thread who seem otherwise clued up, implying that the history of Scotland is similar to that of Ireland. Scotland was joined to England in a union of equals whereas Ireland was colonised and repressed. Completely different history.
As for the argument that N.I is being dragged out of the EU against its will - it's the DUP who are enabling the minority tory government to survive...

auti what specific sovereign powers do you want Ireland to regain from the EU? How will these benefit you and your family, specifically?

@Auti - why do you care about another nation's business? Do you know and understand their history? Are you from that nation?

I am Irish having being taught about Ireland's fight and sacrifice from being a child.

My own grandfather witnessed an old woman executed by a shot to the head by the black and tans.

harrietm87 as you seem to be on a mission to expunge any reference to previous history in proper nouns used in Ireland, I trust you are campaigning to get the Royal National Lifeboat Institution renamed, even though it's volunteers regularly save lives using the RNLI stations in Ireland?

If you were to find yourself in peril at sea off the coast of Tralee, would you refuse assistance from the Fenit lifeboat, as you find the name offensive, or would it occur to you that you were being a bit petulant & there were more important things to put your efforts behind?

Then @Auti , if you wish to promote Ireland 's exit from the EU, it's a bit of a waste of effort to be posting on Mumsnet thread about how people don't realise Ireland is a separate country to the UK. Although the Craicnet topic on here might be interested in hearing from you.
I'm Irish too.

"Also difficult to reconcile your statement that "everywhere else uses it" with "the only time I hear the name used day to day is by people saying they don't like it". "

They are not mutually exclusive. People don't talk about the British Isles very often, but when they do they use that term. By far the most I hear from it is people complaining about its use.

"afaik the British government doesn't use it either"

Out of politeness they don't use it when in discussions with Ireland. But there is no ban on its use and government departments use it where appropriate (e.g. the Met office).

"Who would be "nonplussed" by someone saying "the UK and Ireland" instead??"

Because if you are talking about the UK and Ireland, then you say the UK and Ireland, and people should not use a geographical term when talking about the countries. Anything related to business, politics, sport etc shouldn't be using British Isles. But when you are talking about geography no I don't see a problem with it.

bellini anyone who says "to be posting" doesn't need to point out that they're Irish (I'm only joking before anyone takes offence)

How helpful of you to share. Now get back in your box, you sanctimonious harpy

ifailed just to clarify, are you saying I'm being a bit petulant to care about the use of the British Isles to describe Ireland??

Are you british by any chance? Because this is typical of the British attitude towards Ireland and these issues.

No I'm not on a mission of any kind, and no I have nothing against the RNLI (!).

whatsthecoming
Out of politeness they don't use it when in discussions with Ireland.

And you know it's out of politeness how exactly?

Personally I would always use Eire not Ireland actually but language is fluid people obviously have very strong views. We are living in reasonable harmony with the Irish compared to much of the past so that's a good thing.

Sorry OP, but you seem to be under the misapprehension that I give a damn!!

How helpful of you to share. Now get back in your box, you sanctimonious harpy

obvNC101 are you calling me a ‘sanctimonious harpy’ for pointing out the correct name and independent status of my country?

And what ‘box’ should I get back in, precisely?

Sorry OP, but you seem to be under the misapprehension that I give a damn!!

And Dorothy Parker has arisen from the grave to stun us with her wit.

Honestly, who are these people who bustle effortfully around Mn (or maybe the entire internet, for all I know?) posting about how the OP of threads on anything from anal sex to keeping your eggs in the fridge is wrong to assume that this particular poster Gives a Damn?

but you seem to be under the misapprehension that I give a damn!!

Which is exactly the problem. Too many people don’t give enough of a damn to learn the right name of the country and then get all aggressive when someone corrects their lazy ignorance.

I always thought Eire was just for addressing letters, not something that people actually said...(a bit like UK)

Four, I tend to write much much more than speak (which is why the child laugh at how I pronounce words like Nokia and Skype as i tend to reaed not hear media/words etc). So I am reasonably happy writing Eire. I am pretty relaxed despite my Irish and English and Scottish heritage if NI ceded to Eire in due course or even if the whole if the island of Irelant returned to the fold (although not much chance of the latter).

Let us hope the EU/UK border in NI does not cause relations to get bad again.

Too many people don’t give enough of a damn to learn the right name of the country and then get all aggressive when someone corrects their lazy ignorance.

Never happened yet as, like most the world, I never talk about the fecking place!!

Who was talking about you?

I never talk about the fecking place you use our swear words though

Diplomacy innit Harriet. If you like I can show you the multiple times where government departments do use it.