To point out that Ireland is a separate country?

[DrMantisToboggan]

Just that.

Ireland is a sovereign state, not part of the U.K. It hasn’t been part of the U.K. since 1922.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It’s not part of Great Britain though.

Some people refer to Ireland as the Republic of Ireland, partly to differentiate it from Northern Ireland, but the legal name of the state is Ireland.

While I’m at it, the term “British Isles” is controversial and the product of colonialist geography (geography is not a value-free discipline obviously). The British Gov itself apparently has internal guidance not to use it. In joint documents the British and Irish Govs use the euphemistic phrase “these islands”, and other options include Western Atlantic Archipelago or Islands Of the North Atlantic.

There’s no such country as “Southern Ireland”. And “Eire” is also incorrect, unless you’re in the habit of referring to Germany as Deutschland or Spain as España.

Politicalacuityisathing

Point taken, but as someone who lives on that continent, if anyone ever called me American, I'd be pretty pissed. The people who live in the US can have "American". I'm happy with"Canadian".

I've only ever heard one person from "The Americas" who wasn't from the US call themselves American.

The ‘American (by being from the US) v American (by being so described by a geography teacher)’ distinction strikes me as a very lame argument as an example of linguistic imperialism.

I very much doubt that anyone from Canada to Chile could give a toss about this English language label. Everyone knows what’s meant.

Andylion the point wasn't that a Mexican would want to call themselves American (my experience is that a Mexican is very proud to be specific). It's that an citizen of the USA would call themselves American and somehow co-opt an entire continent OR that English speakers would talk about people or things from USA and call them "American" as though the only bit of that vast geography that has significance is the USA.

Plimmy my experience of people from other parts of that continent is clearly different from yours. It wasn't an argument (of any kind) though, rather an illustration that words matter, labels matter and it is VERY hard to be neutral when you are trying to be factual...

Really... I thought anything that would halt or impact Brexit would be well received by most in the UK.

Depends on which part of the UK. Scotland, for example, voted overall, and in every single council area, to remain in the EU yet is getting dragged out by England and Wales. I believe Northern Ireland is in the same position though with a different political stance in majority; unlike the SNP, I can't see the DUP choosing the EU over the UK.

With respect - and that is not a backhanded or condescending use of the term - the truth that words and labels matter is not well illustrated by your example of ‘American’.

I care very much about language and about its power and its misuse. Which is why I will strongly argue for awareness of casual bigotry and disempowerment through words; but will equally argue against bogus etymology and phantom concerns.

2up
It's a statement of fact in my opinion

Plimmy eh? You seem insistent on arguing against my experience. "bogus" and "phony"? Because you don't believe my example or don't think it is relevant to the broader discussion? I have no idea but I'm stepping out as I wasn't looking to derail.

I don't see the problem in using the British Isles. The issue is that it shouldn't be used very much as it is a purely geographical term, and most of the time people are talking about political entities not geographical ones.

whatscomingoverthehill can you seriously not see a problem with essentially labelling Ireland "british"??

harrietm87 They were known as the British Isles 2,300 years ago, long before any country or political state had the name.

As I've stated in a PP, the name for Brittany has the same origins, and was once an independent state before being taken over by France (named after the Germanic Franks, should France change it's name?).

As I'm sure you are aware, many Bretons are proud of their heritage, are you going to demand they rename their region?

It is by far the most common and long established name for a group of islands. The reaction to it seems over the top. Don't use the term if you don't want to but I don't see why you should expect others to not use it.

People do get very upset by names. I do think if we can all try to live in harmony and not fuss over who owns which country and whetther a precise genetic group has their own owned homeland is a better way to go about things. We can't be giving their own territory to each single group. I was talking to my son about it last week - he's jsut gone to Cornwall. They have their own language etc but it we round even just the whole UK and started chopping it up to please the locals inot separate countries it would be pointless. (Sorry Scots - you had your chance and voted to stay).

Ireland is a sovereign state

No it's not it's ruled by the EU.

Ruled?

ifailed and whatsthecoming it's irrelevant what it used to be called. Countries and states and islands change their names for lots of reasons. I'm sure you wouldn't think it appropriate to refer to Siam, Czechoslovakia, Abyssinia etc etc.

The British Isles is an outdated term no longer used, endorsed or recognised by the Irish government, for fairly obvious reasons. It is simply not equivalent to France or Brittany or whatever because afaik the French government doesn't reject the label of France or Brittany. If they did and proposed an alternative then it would be unreasonable to continue using them.

Yes ruled by the EU.
As are all members of the EU.

The European Commission, the ECJ and European Central Bank are our rulers.

Damn shame really on Irelands part...
After fighting hard to remove nearly 800 years of the British jackboot they had a few decades of independence before taking the EU's pieces of silver.

Shameful really and an insult those that fought and died for Independence and the men who penned the Proclamation of the Irish Republic in 1916...

POBLACHT NA hÉIREANN
THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF THE IRISH REPUBLIC TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND

IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN:
In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the past three hundred years they have asserted it in arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades in arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien Government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National Government, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provisional Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.

We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God, Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, inhumanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline, and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.

Signed on behalf of the Provisional Government:

THOMAS J. CLARKE

SEAN Mac DIARMADA, P. H. PEARSE, JAMES CONNOLLY, THOMAS MacDONAGH, EAMONN CEANNT, JOSEPH PLUNKETT

The EU does not rule any EU state in any legal or technical sense.

Most of us use UK sometimes Great Britain and sometimes the British Isles depending on context.

DrMantisToboggan Is it OK to refer to the Republic of Ireland as "the South" in the context of discussions which include Northren Ireland?

My Irish business partner facetiously refers to these islands as "Westeros" when talking to Americans.

It's not the use of the term "American" for things for the USA that's problematic for Mexicans and Canadians, it's Briton's blanket term "America" to refer to what they intend to mean the USA. "America" is an enormous landmass, and most American anthems referencing "America" are callbacks to the US's traditional Manifest Destiny ambitions.

That old Manifest Destiny thinking still pops up sometimes and still winds up Mexicans and Canadians, btw.

"Countries and states and islands change their names for lots of reasons."

Yep. Except the British Isles are not a country or state. And how does a geographical entity, covering more than one country, change its name? It would be like someone in Spain saying they didn't like the word Europe and telling everyone to stop using it. Do you have a law telling everyone in the UK (and around the world for that matter) that they can't use it any more? The only way it would happen is by natural changes in language. It may happen, it may not, but at present it is by far the most common name for the group of islands. That people in Ireland don't like it is not sufficient reason to insist on it not being used elsewhere.

"The British Isles is an outdated term no longer used, endorsed or recognised by the Irish government, for fairly obvious reasons."

Maybe in Ireland. Everywhere else uses it, so no it is not outdated. And in any case, all the other names proposed just sound incredibly wanky and almost serve to highlight that they are just trying to make a point. Pretty much the only time I hear the name being used day to day is by people saying they don't like it.

There are absolutely issues with how Ireland (the country) is often referred to (Eire or Southern Ireland in particular). But focusing on the British Isles leaves people nonplussed and I think actually rather self-defeating if you want to reduce its use.

"My Irish business partner facetiously refers to these islands as "Westeros" when talking to Americans."

If he's talking about the countries why doesn't he just say Ireland and the UK?

The EU does not rule any EU state in any legal or technical sense.

Just try to leave

what's wrong with 'the islands' which is what Polish people say.as in 'I am going to the islands to look for work'.

Or yes indeed, Ireland and the UK.

I took a job in Dublin last month, until my housing officer told me that I shouldn't have 'left the country'..I was furious! since when has going to Dublin been 'leaving the country'!!?? (in my own mind)
but that is just due to my family history..:)

Before anyone starts I am perfectly aware of the nationhood/statehood etc of 'the islands.

...oh wait, I have just had a thought..as the vast majority of Brits are incapable of differentiating the pronunciation of 'Ireland' and 'Island' there could be a problem...

Just try to leave why would we?